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Kian's Backstory (Speculation & Spoilers)

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#161 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 23 March 2015 - 17:21

It's Crow. The credibility of what he says is... practically non-existant. ;)

 

Touche. 

 

Okay something that's been bothering me about the whole Kian, Vamon, and Sahya thing... 

 

<snip for space>

 

Yeah... I think that's more or less what we're all trying to figure out. The fact that Zoe's important is pretty easy to pin down. She's a (...the?) Dreamer. Kian's role is less clearly defined at this point. We just know that he is important. 

 

I think we're supposed to be wondering these things at this point, though. Your theories are quite plausible. We also know that V&S are worried about General Hami and Mother Utana. Both of whom have connections to Kian. Both of whom are high ranking. It could, at this stage, be something as simple as wanting Kian out of the picture so he doesn't tip them off to...something... but whether it's just that they're abusing their power and breaking the rules (uh...they're sleeping together, for starters) or something else... 

 

I think it's partly a "time will tell" thing, but I'm still trying to spin my theories for exactly how these pieces pull together. 


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#162 Abnoxious

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Posted 23 March 2015 - 17:44

 

Yeah, but Abby and Hanna have more of like a...teen lovers spat...

...So, I mean... ...unless... Nope. No. Mind isn't going to go there. No.

I'm still trying to scrub the image of him and Sahya out of my head. 

Hahaha i dont mean like that, I just mean the fact two young people sleeping rough and the entanglement of some form of relationship may echo through the balance somehow, like how the politics (specifically emotive acts such as nelas bombing and rebels box bombing, or the possible death or not death of baruti and the azadi officer - ooh makes you wonder if alive baruti is being manipulated but thats for another thread ) are reflected into each storyline. I mean this could just be a plot device to reinforce the notion of Kian and Zoe following new paths in a similar way, but it will be interesting to see if anything else is mirrored... 


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#163 Indrid Cold

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Posted 23 March 2015 - 17:54

Okay something that's been bothering me about the whole Kian, Vamon, and Sahya thing... What are V&S so worried about with Kian? Maybe I missed something, but what part of their involvement in the occupation is fishy by the standards of the Six? The occupation, the tower, the segregation and genocide all seem to be part of the Azadi thing... I understand that their relationship is outside of Azadi law but Kian is just kind of hearing rumors about that now. They seem like really inept conspirators that get paranoid and start dangerous damage control before anyone knows that they're even up to anything...

The only thing I can think of is the Swamp City massacre, because it was human women and children and families... But with everything else the Azadi seem okay with, that doesn't seem too serious...

Good question! It hadn't occurred to me.

So, we're looking for something that Kian found out but the Six aren't supposed to know. It may be something as simple as the treatment that magicals get. Perhaps the Six only wanted them kept apart from humans, not threatened and killed. Although if the Dolmari in Azadir were at war with the Azadi, that sounds unlikely. Still, in DF Kian believed the Six wouldn't stand for how the magicals and rebels are treated and, although I thought him misguided at the time, he could have been right.


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#164 khh

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Posted 23 March 2015 - 20:10

I may be mistaken, but I thought Crow said in DF that there was nothing magical about him speaking, that any bird could speak and most of them just choose to speak Bird instead of Na'ven.

That does seem to contradict what he was doing in TLJ, though. I don't buy it. Unless Ragnar outright tells me that's how it is and it's no mistake, I won't buy it. And ... even then I may maintain my own fanon.

 

Kian's role is less clearly defined at this point. We just know that he is important. 

 

I think we're supposed to be wondering these things at this point, though. Your theories are quite plausible. We also know that V&S are worried about General Hami and Mother Utana. Both of whom have connections to Kian. Both of whom are high ranking. It could, at this stage, be something as simple as wanting Kian out of the picture so he doesn't tip them off to...something... but whether it's just that they're abusing their power and breaking the rules (uh...they're sleeping together, for starters) or something else... 

 

I think it's partly a "time will tell" thing, but I'm still trying to spin my theories for exactly how these pieces pull together. 

The world does end unless Kian joins the rebels, though. I kinda feel like he's doing something more important than exposing that Vamon and Sayha are getting it on.


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#165 Olstyle

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Posted 23 March 2015 - 20:18

Crow reminds me lot of Iago from Disney's Alladin. And since he is quite a turncoat(especially in Kingdom Hearts 2) I always suspected Crow of the same.

Considering the Sixes views on what's going down in Marcuria:
I always considered them to be quite naive on how the "conversions" they order really happen. So even if they are not very fond of magicals I wouldn't expect them to directly order a genocide.

The world does end unless Kian joins the rebels, though. I kinda feel like he's doing something more important than exposing that Vamon and Sayha are getting it on.


This could still be down to the http://en.m.wikipedi...tterfly_effect'> butterfly effect .

#166 Indrid Cold

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Posted 23 March 2015 - 20:26

That does seem to contradict what he was doing in TLJ, though. I don't buy it. Unless Ragnar outright tells me that's how it is and it's no mistake, I won't buy it. And ... even then I may maintain my own fanon.

There were several contradictions between DF and TLJ though. Like the year Brian left Stark (1933 or 1934?), which one of April's friends believed her and how much she told them.

 

I do remember Ragnar saying that he didn't remember TLJ that well when writing DF, and some details were wrong (I think the words were more or less "I wish the TLJ wiki was around when I wrote DF").



#167 Hitana

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Posted 23 March 2015 - 20:29

Since the Six, Mother Utana and General Hami all have good minds concerning Kian (especially if it's "just" about him having the right to be tried), Vamon and Sahya may simply fear that they will find out that Kian was gonna be executed without a trial outside of Sadir.

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#168 Indrid Cold

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Posted 23 March 2015 - 20:34

Since the Six, Mother Utana and General Hami all have good minds concerning Kian (especially if it's "just" about him having the right to be tried), Vamon and Sahya may simply fear that they will find out that Kian was gonna be executed without a trial outside of Sadir.

I'm pretty sure it was said that they wanted Kian executed without a trial because of what he may tell the Six.



#169 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 23 March 2015 - 20:38

The world does end unless Kian joins the rebels, though. I kinda feel like he's doing something more important than exposing that Vamon and Sayha are getting it on.

 

Oh, for sure. But just because he has a role that's hueg doesn't mean that V&S fully realize his role. There are implications that they may, but they may also just be trying to save their own skins for various reasons.

 

They don't have to be mutually exclusive and I wasn't trying to imply that Kian's most important role was that of Booty Call Investigator. (Come on, you know me and my Kian Feels better than that. :P

 

I actually sort of suspect that there are bigger wheels turning than anyone, particularly V&S, realizes and that Kian's important role is tied to that. Big stuff. Stuff with Lux dying and the world ending and the people putting together these machines probably having no real understanding of exactly what the consequences of their actions will be. 


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#170 khh

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Posted 23 March 2015 - 21:38

Crow reminds me lot of Iago from Disney's Alladin. And since he is quite a turncoat(especially in Kingdom Hearts 2) I always suspected Crow of the same.

Blasphemy! You wanna be careful making accusations such as those... :P :P

 

I think Kian is more important than the butterfly effect, that would be such a deus ex machina.

 

There were several contradictions between DF and TLJ though. Like the year Brian left Stark (1933 or 1934?), which one of April's friends believed her and how much she told them.

 

I do remember Ragnar saying that he didn't remember TLJ that well when writing DF, and some details were wrong (I think the words were more or less "I wish the TLJ wiki was around when I wrote DF").

True, but he hasn't indicated which is more canon. And him and Dag has been doing some retconning in DFC to fix a few of the discrepancies.

 

Oh, for sure. But just because he has a role that's hueg doesn't mean that V&S fully realize his role. There are implications that they may, but they may also just be trying to save their own skins for various reasons.

 

They don't have to be mutually exclusive and I wasn't trying to imply that Kian's most important role was that of Booty Call Investigator. (Come on, you know me and my Kian Feels better than that. :P

 

I actually sort of suspect that there are bigger wheels turning than anyone, particularly V&S, realizes and that Kian's important role is tied to that. Big stuff. Stuff with Lux dying and the world ending and the people putting together these machines probably having no real understanding of exactly what the consequences of their actions will be. 

That is a good point.

 

You know, that last there brings me to an important point that we haven't really touched much on. Why are they building machines? And why are the worlds bleeding into each other? Is it all to do with Lux? (And this has probably been brought up before, but the fact that Lux means light has got to be important - though maybe not in the obvious light of the Godess way)


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When I visit her dark realm,
Does it simply overwhelm.


#171 despaiens

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 03:43

 

You know, that last there brings me to an important point that we haven't really touched much on. Why are they building machines? And why are the worlds bleeding into each other? Is it all to do with Lux? (And this has probably been brought up before, but the fact that Lux means light has got to be important - though maybe not in the obvious light of the Godess way)

I just watched Vestrum Tobias' explanation of the history of the balance again recently, and I'm sure it must have mentioned before here but the Azadi tower calls to mind to tower of the Guardian, but was again struck by the emphasis of the cooperation of magic and science to split the world in two.  If it happens in Arcadia magic is a given and then combined with all those steam machines, well... it seems that at least at one point in history, if you wanted to "reshape reality" you needed powerful magic and technology in close proximity channeled through a really big tower.  Don't know how dreams come in but they are the fabric that makes up the cosmos or some such...


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#172 khh

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 04:00

I just watched Vestrum Tobias' explanation of the history of the balance again recently, and I'm sure it must have mentioned before here but the Azadi tower calls to mind to tower of the Guardian, but was again struck by the emphasis of the cooperation of magic and science to split the world in two.  If it happens in Arcadia magic is a given and then combined with all those steam machines, well... it seems that at least at one point in history, if you wanted to "reshape reality" you needed powerful magic and technology in close proximity channeled through a really big tower.  Don't know how dreams come in but they are the fabric that makes up the cosmos or some such...

This is true and a good point. That may answer the "why are they building it" question.

 

But if the Guardian was doing his job and the Balance was restored after TLJ, then they shouldn't be able to use science in Stark or Magic in Arcadia. The explanation for this is that the worlds are bleeding together, but .. why are they bleeding together?


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When I visit her dark realm,
Does it simply overwhelm.


#173 Pawlo_86

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 07:43

I think that Dreamer cycle has very liitle to with Balance. The worlds bleeding into each other because of Collapse and because dreams from Stark are captured in Arcadia. I think that Tower's purpose is harvesting dreams from twin worlds. This once happend in the past in Ancient City. Steam Machines can be arcadian version of Dreamer. So Azadi are going to steal dreams from Marcurians and change them into "dreamer zombies".

 

WATIcorp can control "dreamer zombies" in Stark while Azadi will be able to control "dreamer zombies" in Arcadia. Thief Of Dreams must be behind it and he/she will be able to control twin worlds. Unlimited power. This can lead to War Of The Balance where bad guys will want to keep Divide while good guys will want break Divide and reunification of Stark and Arcadia.

 

We must wait untill Baba Yaga will be revealed and her plot. This may change direction of theories.



#174 Tomer

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 08:49

Sorry to burst in the discussion, I haven't read all of it, but I have a Kian-related question and I didn't want to open a new thread for it (probably discussed before?)

 

If one chooses to die right in the beginning, instead of joining the rebels... Does the book actually end with this decision saved? I mean, can one continue to book 3 then? Or is it the end of the game, so to say...?



#175 khh

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 08:50

Felt like a game over to me.


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When I visit her dark realm,
Does it simply overwhelm.


#176 Pawlo_86

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 09:10

Sorry to burst in the discussion, I haven't read all of it, but I have a Kian-related question and I didn't want to open a new thread for it (probably discussed before?)

 

If one chooses to die right in the beginning, instead of joining the rebels... Does the book actually end with this decision saved? I mean, can one continue to book 3 then? Or is it the end of the game, so to say...?

 

There isn't "save for Book Three" screen so i don't think so. It is just bad ending of Dreamfall Chapters.


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#177 Tina

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 15:54

I'm probably still going to try "finishing" with the "not join the rebels" once Book 3 are out, just in case. What if there happens to be a "Start Book 3" option, and then you start the Book and there's some easter eggy thing that happens or something. I feel it needs to be tried :P


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#178 urzagc13

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 15:58

I'm probably still going to try "finishing" with the "not join the rebels" once Book 3 are out, just in case. What if there happens to be a "Start Book 3" option, and then you start the Book and there's some easter eggy thing that happens or something. I feel it needs to be tried :P

 

We should be treated with a 2-hour long cinematic where we witness "The Twin Worlds burn"! 


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#179 Watilla

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 17:24

 


Assuming Magnus is from Stark, Etta must be part of a very high class/royal family ( hence the warrior princess ) and the whole thing: magical race female falling in love and having a baby with a human, didn't go over very well.

 

Ok, where did you find about Etta being called the warrior princes?

Because the very very last thing Crow and Lady Alvane is talking about in TLJ is THIS:

 

 

Lady Alvane:

Don't worry, Crow. I think our adventuring days are over. But that doesn't mean we can't tell stories, does it?

Crow:

No, definitely not. Tell me one. Tell me about the one about the young, beautiful warrior princess who single-handedly won the War of the Balance!

Lady Alvane:

Hmmm... I don't remember it quite like that, Crow, but let's see... This story begins a long, long time ago, when Stark and Arcadia were still to be reunited, and the Guardian was still on his throne...



#180 urzagc13

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 17:45

I'm sure thelj is just assuming here. There has been no connection of Etta to the warrior princess in the game(s) yet.

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