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Disabling "X Will Remember This" Notifications


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#41 demonofelru

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 15:30

Off topic, but Chrono Cross was awesome. Great userpic aerothorn.


I was dreaming. Perhaps it may have been but a long forgotten memory. Things remembered when one is asleep. Things forgotten when one is awake. Where the deepest layers of memories become the outmost layers of one's dreams. Which are reality? Which are illusions? Or perhaps they are, at the same time, both truth and fiction. A vast nebulous with no boundaries. An emptiness equivalent to my own existence. I dreamt such a dream. A long, never-ending, dream. - Fei Fong Wong


#42 Happy Tree

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 02:06

As has been said, the notifications allow you to differentiate between conversation differences and plot points. For example, I just replayed the warden scene to explore all the different choices. The first options I chose were the "right" ones because he want straight to the response that moves the game forward. So this time I chose all the other options and all he does is tell me to be smarter and then close the conversation down. Then Kian scratches his head over what he should have said, so basically the game is making me keep on choosing things until I get it right.

 

Some may not like this mechanism, I think it's fine. There is only one line of argument that will convince him to open the gate and this is linked to what he says about himself before. If you were paying attention you get straight through. If not? There'd be no point in the game saying "Ok well that's you buggered, then" so it might as well just keep you there until you get it right. One could see that as a penalty or, for a completionist, consider that it's nice to hear all the different answers he gives. Some can be quite amusing.

 

I'm not bothered about stuff being made optional, who could argue against choice? Well, maybe I could. I mean, as an artist you do make choices about what the receiver of that art will receive. You don't hand the public a box of crayons and a blank canvas and say ok on you go, choose what you see. So it's a valid restriction for a game developer to decide if you should be aware of these choices or not. As people have said, it does make you lend more weight to these moments.

 

But in the end, if it does become another option then no harm done.



#43 Vainamoinen

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 21:34

Okay, uhm, no.

 

consequence.jpg

 

Honestly, please, no. This could not have been done in a less blunt way. This_is_artless. No, no, no, no. :blink:

 

Let us get rid of that.


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#44 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 21:38

Yeah... I missed that they did that until someone pointed it out to me in another thread, as I haven't done a complete play through since the patch, but... Nope. Not a fan. At all. The "this will be remembered" thing doesn't bother me, but THAT up there ruins the mystery for me and a lot of conversations that I was hoping to have as the game progressed. 

 

If they put in a toggle option, I guess it's a moot point, but if they don't... ...Yeah, I just really don't like that. 


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#45 jlddodger

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 21:53

Attached File  UncleSam_Consequence.png   2.13MB   3 downloads


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#46 Crowboy

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 22:39

Indeed that is a bit over the top.

 

at the risk of ranting:

 

What next, a black and white flashback of the decision that brought this consequence?

I like the old messages, but this is too much.



#47 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 22:47

Yeah... ...I understand why they're doing it, I just...disagree. And for me it does honestly take something away in a way that simply saying "This will have a consequence" doesn't. 

 

I guess it'll be interesting to see (assuming it doesn't change) how often that pops up. Will it be for every variation? Only widely divergent consequences? Where do you draw the line with that?

 

I don't know. 


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#48 Mr_Russ

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 03:04

I'm glad I didn't see that when I did my playthroughs.



#49 Em_TC

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 03:31

...Whoa. I haven't gotten around to my second playthrough yet, but... geez. :\ That new "Consequence" line is just... way too blatantly in-your-face. Definitely with Vainamoinen here. Do not want. Would love to have a toggle option. 


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#50 aerothorn

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 04:56

I am bummed - a friend of mine has had to wait to play due to not having the time, and I know she won't be a fan of this.

 

Won't repeat myself, particularly because I am trying to keep this positive (we love Chapters!) but yes, if an option setting is enabled, that notification should definitely be rolled into that same option. Pretty please? :)


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#51 toremygg

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 07:43

So, that's a thing now?

 

gxuM60O.gif


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#52 urzagc13

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 19:25

Yeah... ...I understand why they're doing it, I just...disagree. And for me it does honestly take something away in a way that simply saying "This will have a consequence" doesn't. 

 

I guess it'll be interesting to see (assuming it doesn't change) how often that pops up. Will it be for every variation? Only widely divergent consequences? Where do you draw the line with that?

 

I don't know. 

 

I'm certain that this "consequence" message is about the big branching paths created by the "The Balance Has Shifted" choices, and not by the "X will remember this" ones.

 

And having said that, my opinion on the notifications thing is:

- At first, I'm glad that they are in, because I'm a completionist and they help a lot in indicating where things diverge so I can do them differently and see all paths.

- I can understand the people that want to be able to turn them off, I agree they should seriously consider allowing that (the default should be with them "on" though). I would also like that option for "cinematic" reasons (to be able to make "movie-like" recordings without intruding UI).

- Finally, I disagree with lumping all the types of notifications together. In my opinion, the "The Balance Has Shifted" ones (which aren't that many also and are very important), are much less annoying, quite "ominous" (and vague at the same time), while the "X will remember this" happen quite often, can be silly (like the one that the soon-to-be-dead prisoner will remember, for a few more seconds, lol) and more distracting/immersion-breaking, In My Opinion Always, I repeat. This means, that I would even support an option to turn off ONLY the "X will remember" but NOT the Balance ones. But I would be ok with a "turn all off" option as well, I just wouldn't use it myself.

- As for the new "Consequence: X" ones, the one we have is quite immersion breaking (and at quite a random point also). I believe the better place for them would be at the end-of-episode recap, where I wouldn't mind even if they were VERY detailed (I think now for the "path that was/may be" the recap says only "your choice has already changed the course of your life, and it will continue to do so." I wouldn't mind if it blatantly explained that it affected your career path, for example).


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#53 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 19:38

I'm certain that this "consequence" message is about the big branching paths created by the "The Balance Has Shifted" choices, and not by the "X will remember this" ones.

 

That's a fair assessment. You're probably right.

 

I suppose I would maybe mind the the whole "Consequence: Blah." thing less if it was part just part of the recap at the end... But I'm still sort of iffy on it. 

 

I don't mind the fact that the game is alerting me to the fact that I'm doing things and that's making a difference in my experience. I mind when it tells me exactly what the outcome is. At least it doesn't say "Because you made X choice, Y." So I suppose there's still a little mystery as to what decision brought about that consequence, and maybe the choice that caused the consequence will become less obvious as there's more game.

 

One of the things that helped me get on board with the whole "C&C" thing was the notion that we'd be able to have some really interesting conversations about how paths branched. Finding the big changes and the small changes and the less obvious changes and the "Wow, this thing blew me away!" "What are you talking about? When did that happen?" And how it would be fun to map that out ourselves. Mystery is important + the ability to choose to peer behind the curtain. 

 

But having that notification suddenly makes it so obvious that there's a "man behind the curtain" that it...I don't know. It feels less fun. To me. I'm sure there are people who like it and/or who asked for more obvious indicators. :/


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#54 urzagc13

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 19:45

I'm not saying that it is a 100% justified reason, but I'm certain that RTG added this "consequence" blurb in the latest patch exactly because the vast majority of people (including the vast majority of the reviewers) were totally ignorant about the existance of an alternate path and some were even bashing the game for giving only "a fake illusion of choice" (comparing to how Telltale does the same), when there's actual consequences already from Book 1.


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#55 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 19:50

Oh, no, I'm certain that's a big part of why they did it. 

 

I'm just not okay with the fact that my experience feels like it's being cheapened because some other people are... ...I'm going to just snip it there, because I'm going to get unnecessarily impolite.

 

Like I said, I understand why RTG did it. I don't even necessarily blame them for doing it since it seems like they were reacting to genuine feedback from people who aren't me. 

 

I just don't like it. At all. So I'm giving my feedback.

 

I'm still going to play the game. I'm not like hopping mad or anything. I'm not going to take up torch and pitchfork. I'm just personally disappointed with this change. 


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#56 BenBandu

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 00:18

I don't mind it much either, but I wouldn't mind an option to switch it off either. I'd prefer it without them personally, just because it feels rather pushy. I think TLJ did it right, "Work or Not work?" choice ends in different cutscenes and some difference in dialogue the next morning. Took me a few replays of the game before I decided to work, but damn, the sense of discovery when I did  :sohappy: I don't need them to tell me that my choice had any consequence, showing me is enough, feels like I discovered it on my own and not like the pushed me down the right path.



#57 thelj

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 01:25

 it feels rather pushy. I think TLJ did it right, "Work or Not work?" choice ends in different cutscenes and some difference in dialogue the next morning. Took me a few replays of the game before I decided to work, but damn, the sense of discovery when I did  :sohappy: I don't need them to tell me that my choice had any consequence, showing me is enough, feels like I discovered it on my own and not like the pushed me down the right path.

 

Correct.



#58 ct2651

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Posted 08 November 2014 - 02:09

Oh, no, I'm certain that's a big part of why they did it. 

 

I'm just not okay with the fact that my experience feels like it's being cheapened because some other people are... ...I'm going to just snip it there, because I'm going to get unnecessarily impolite.

 

Like I said, I understand why RTG did it. I don't even necessarily blame them for doing it since it seems like they were reacting to genuine feedback from people who aren't me. 

 

I just don't like it. At all. So I'm giving my feedback.

 

I'm still going to play the game. I'm not like hopping mad or anything. I'm not going to take up torch and pitchfork. I'm just personally disappointed with this change. 

 

Well, sometime me too I just don't understand the vast majority XD



#59 Happy Tree

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 12:41

Moving the consequence explanation to the summary at the end of each Book is the best idea, I think. That way you're not bothered by it during play but then, after, you realise ahhhh I can go back and change that bit if I want. Best of both worlds.

 

Also, a good slider option for these notifications would be Off...........Some..........All

 

I'm currently playing The Wolf Among Us, my first Telltale game1. And wow ok yes, RTG are totally ripping the whole thing off here, lol. But they're doing it well and I love DFC for what it is, so that's not a problem.

 

What I see doesn't work so well in DFC is the "x will remember this" because you're left thinking "So what?". In Wolf, I really want to be nice to my fellow Fables because when someone appreciates my softer approach they smile at me and nod in my direction slightly to indicate recognition. I get immediate feedback from that. And already I want Snow to remember all the nice things I'm saying about her, so feel properly rewarded just by a little look of kindness towards me. I think DFC's remembering system would work better if some little tweaks were made to the animation to give us that pull on the heartstrings.

 

------------

1 Well, I played that zombie game briefly but couldn't stand the horror thing



#60 Mr_Russ

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 12:46

Ben, I played all of TWAU over the last few days. I'd love to know what you make of it. I think that discussion's for the games thread though.






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