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Guardian of Balance role

holloway gordon balance guardian steampunk magic science

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#1 iwulBRAND

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 00:18

So I've just finished DF:Chapters, and there's one, striking inconsistency (which was present in the first Dreamfall, too). Total omission of Holloway (Guardian of Balance) in the last part of trilogy. Let's think about the Guardian's role. He stands in the tower, channeling the two energies of science and magic, making sure they are in the Balance and seemingly knowing everything that happens in both worlds, or at least everything that can threaten the Balance. During Dreamfall:TLJ, the Balance of science and magic is obviously distorted. The Azadi start to make Arcadia steampunk, and try to slowly eradicate magic from the world. What he says when April comes to him, scared that something is happening to the balance, both worlds and all? That he doesn't feel any shift of balance (or something along the lines, not an exact quote). Why so? Was he blinded in some way? Or was it above his employment duties? :) After that brief scene in Dreamfall, is that even any mention of Guardian? Maybe in some lore introducing dialogues, nothing more. 

We may believe that the Dreaming-Undreaming conflict is something bigger than the Balance between magic and science, chaos and rationality, and all, but it quickly is revealed, that the Balance and Guardian's duties are at the center of that conflict. Azadi are making the steampunk computer, doing genocide of magicals. In Stark, they make machine collecting dreams, which has something to do with magic. That's distorting the Balance, too. Hell, even when the whole Divide starts falling apart, we see no activity by the Guardian, not a single NPC asking why the Guardian isn't protecting the Balance. You may explain it with Sentinels (Minstrum) getting underground, but hell, The Resistance is living in Sentinels' Enclave. Which means they have knowledge of the Balance lore, which means at least some of them know something about Guardian. Still, noone cares. And the Guardian doesn't care.

Sorry for the rant, it's just that the Balance lore from the first game had been totally butchered by adding the Dreaming lore. 
TLDR
Balance is falling apart, noone asks why the Guardian doesn't help, he senses nothing, either.


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#2 Lee-m

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 01:03

Holloway is pretty clear in Dreamfall that current events do not concern him (or April for that matter). Science and Magic are still apart. A few steam contraptions and pipes don't change that.
Hes not micromanaging the two worlds, just channelling the correct energy.

The Divide doesnt fall apart in DFC. Just Dreams moving between the two, and thats what Brian uses.

...it's just that the Balance lore from the first game had been totally butchered by adding the Dreaming lore.

This Dreaming nonsense has spoiled the whole science/magic divide stuff from TLJ I totally agree.
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#3 Pawlo_86

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 10:53

Yeah Gordon's statements in Dreamfall are very weird. Brian's agenda was to use The Undreaming to destroy Magic in Arcadia and reunite twin worlds. As Prophet he bring technology to Arcadia. He even made order to kill all Magicals. He own dream energy from Stark. IMO Brian's actions really damaged balance between Science and Magic. But Gordon didn't saw it. Why? Was he blind because of The Undreaming influence?

#4 magic88889

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 14:30

The whole thing with the Dreamer cycle was a threat to the Dream.  Which means that reality itself is threatened.  It is, as you said, above the Guardian's paygrade, as in the end, he's just another part of the Dream.  Brian is using Dreams to reshape reality, which is not really science or magic. 



#5 iwulBRAND

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 14:34

So I guess, in the end The Guardian is just a pawn, not an Atlas carrying the worlds on his shoulders ;( 

Still, even agreeing with all Dreamer Cycle arguments, I don't feel right about another thing. Azadi worked to delete magic, and make Arcadia the world of science and were succesful to some extent. Hasn't it affected the flow of energies at all?



#6 Lee-m

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 14:45

Azadi worked to delete magic, and make Arcadia the world of science and were succesful to some extent. Hasn't it affected the flow of energies at all?

But that is just not true. Their plan failed, and it was just in one city.. the extent of it in the context of the whole world(arcadia) was quite minor really. Its just not something that involves the Guardian. His job is more to keep Magic out of Stark than it is to keep science out of Arcadia.

#7 magic88889

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 14:59

The Guardian and the Divide that he manages were created inside the Dream.  It's a part of it, so it is subject to any changes to that Dream.  If reality changes the nature of the Divide to let a bit more science into Arcadia, how is the Guardian to know?  Let my put it this way, if somebody changed the laws of physics in our world to make the sky purple, would we notice?  It would appear as if the sky was always purple, because that is how physics works and how it has always been.  Would you really know that it used to be blue?


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#8 Hellegennes

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 15:26

So I've just finished DF:Chapters, and there's one, striking inconsistency

 

Really? One? :)



#9 the red of the kin

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 17:33

I think the confusion lies in the fact you have one first game where dreams are not mentioned and the Guardian seems to be the most important element. When the second game came out it seemed dreams were important yes but not anymore than the Balance.
the third game put all emphasis on Dreams, while Balance was barely mentioned.
This isn't much of a problem in itself ...but the way it was shown is kind of the problem.
Even now if I think about the war of the Balance...it kinda lost its meaning when put next to the Dream..which creates reality itself.

IF YOU'RE A GHOST.......JUST LEAVE ME BE!


#10 Indrid Cold

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 18:09

I think dreams were clearly more important than the Balance even in DF. Gordon said they always passed freely between the two worlds but that it doesn't concern the Balance, and he also said that he can't see into the Dreaming (Storytime). It's obviously something bigger than him and the Balance.

Even the White Dragon was excited and awed to meet Zoƫ, and she was basically an Eldritch abomination! The Kin created the Divide, too.

 

At the same time, anything at all threatening the universe by using dreams seems to be so big an event that it has to be unprecedented. DF and DFC are one story, and once the situation is resolved (Lux and Nox have been reunited), it seems to be done. Now the Balance/Divide is still the biggest thing that concerns the two worlds.


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#11 Lee-m

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 18:56

I think the confusion lies in the fact you have one first game where dreams are not mentioned

The first game being TLJ ? Dreams do come up a few times, I think by Cortez, and a few others. Just not a great deal of importance is attached to it.
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#12 the red of the kin

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 19:32

I think the focus of TLJ is Art, although you are indeed cirrect. also April's first contact with her...mother is in a dream, her contact with the Banda spirit is in a dream as well.
It's just that the game never connects it to a moment of creation but it's more of a vehicle through wich Art comes to life
at least that's how I saw it..
..i might be buased since my solo project is called oniric and I compose when I'm half asleep ;-)

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