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My Thoughts on This Messed Up Situation

controversy Musical Contest

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#1 Evilopoly90

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 12:57

Well, this Musical Competition has turned into a right mess. and I'd rather it get sorted. So seeing as I matter, I'm going to post my 100% right and true opinion that you should all follow because I'm  right so shut up!...

 

Why are you looking at me like that?

 

Okay, joking aside I do have an opinion on this and a story to tell. So it's thematic, y'all.

 

Seriously, stop staring!

 

So at Rezzed 2013, ole Ragnar and co did a presentation at Rezzed 2013 for DFC that I went too being the fanboy that I am. I've made no secret on this forum of my passionate love affair with TLJ and Dreamfall so I was really shitting bricks at being in the same room as the people who made the game that kind of sort of cheered me up during some bad times, and inspired me to become an actor. After the presentation there was some Q and A.  Before I even knew what I was doing. I shot my hand up. I had a question in my head. A wonderfully eloquent and mature question that would impress everyone with how mature I was.

 

" Can I do some voice acting in your game" 

 

Naturally everyone laughed at how bloody stupid I was. The RTD team took it in good humour despite my being a total crazed fanboy about it. I even approached Ragnar about it afterwords, he was perfectly within his rights to have me chucked out by security but instead he actually told me I could email him. 

 

I sent a couple of awkward emails to Tiffany and after a bit, it didn't happen. 

 

I'm not bitter about it. It was an awkward and stupid thing of me to do. I've since learnt through my training at the college I'm at that this is a really bad way to get a part in anything so more fool me. I'm certainly a lot more equiped if the extremely unlikely does happen and I get to do some voice acting for RTD. I'd jump at the chance if given just to pay back some of the awesome experiences I got.

 

Here's the thing. I knew that if any of this happened then It would probably be unpayed work. I was absolutely fine with that. It'd be awesome just to contribute to such a passionate project and give back to people who helped me through some tough times. It would go towards my Actors CV and give me experience that could lead to further jobs. This Music contest struck me as a way to enable the fans to do just what I wanted to do but y'know not in an awkward and arrogant way. 

 

From what I've seen on the web and my all too awkward and embarrassing meeting with Ragnar himself. He doesn't strike me as the type to exploit his fans for unpayed work. The whole contest just seemed like a way to get some awesome music in Chapters, interact with the fans and reward them for being talented individuals. So why all the hate and vitriol for someone who just genuinely wants to make a good game?

 

Well, I've rambled on long enough. So there's my opinion, take it or leave it.  


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#2 Happy Tree

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 15:49

I agree with much of your post and sentiment. However Ragnar has explained very clearly that there were "industry" representatives who got involved and were potentially going to make life difficult for some of the paid, professional people involved. They may have had a point, or not at all, or only partially. We don't know as this was private communication. But whatever the rights and wrongs of it, RTG had to protect itself and its people so discretion became the better part of valour in this case. Sometimes you have to calculate what you'll win and lose by fighting, and some victories will turn out to be somewhat Pyrrhic in nature.

 

I would just like to draw attention to one thing you mentioned in passing: "It would go towards my Actors CV and give me experience that could lead to further jobs". I'm not criticising you for this thought and it's quite natural to have this as some part of the motivation for doing unpaid work. I do feel, however, that in the case of a music competition (being very distinct from "unpaid work") for fans, there is the danger that some will seize the opportunity to try to tout for business elsewhere. Perhaps even dumping some of their back catalogue in that never had any inspiration from DFC in the first place.

 

I feel this is an unfortunate approach to take and is not really in the spirit of giving freely for the love of it. To my mind, the point of the competition was to ask fans to think and feel the TLJ/DF universe and let that inspire them to create something, then to offer this artistic expression to the game world freely with perhaps not 100% but certainly a significant majority proportion of altruistic intent. That, to me, would then properly reflect the pure purpose of the event and repay the generous opportunity that RTG gave to us in the first place. Sadly, when music and money get involved there are so many vested and personal interests that rear their heads things can quickly get a bit bent out of shape.

 

As I said, I'm not saying this has anything to do with your approach to it personally, it was just that one phrase that sparked my reaction to voice this concern I already had in the back of my mind.



#3 Evilopoly90

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 16:13

I agree with much of your post and sentiment. However Ragnar has explained very clearly that there were "industry" representatives who got involved and were potentially going to make life difficult for some of the paid, professional people involved. They may have had a point, or not at all, or only partially. We don't know as this was private communication. But whatever the rights and wrongs of it, RTG had to protect itself and its people so discretion became the better part of valour in this case. Sometimes you have to calculate what you'll win and lose by fighting, and some victories will turn out to be somewhat Pyrrhic in nature.

 

I would just like to draw attention to one thing you mentioned in passing: "It would go towards my Actors CV and give me experience that could lead to further jobs". I'm not criticising you for this thought and it's quite natural to have this as some part of the motivation for doing unpaid work. I do feel, however, that in the case of a music competition (being very distinct from "unpaid work") for fans, there is the danger that some will seize the opportunity to try to tout for business elsewhere. Perhaps even dumping some of their back catalogue in that never had any inspiration from DFC in the first place.

 

I feel this is an unfortunate approach to take and is not really in the spirit of giving freely for the love of it. To my mind, the point of the competition was to ask fans to think and feel the TLJ/DF universe and let that inspire them to create something, then to offer this artistic expression to the game world freely with perhaps not 100% but certainly a significant majority proportion of altruistic intent. That, to me, would then properly reflect the pure purpose of the event and repay the generous opportunity that RTG gave to us in the first place. Sadly, when music and money get involved there are so many vested and personal interests that rear their heads things can quickly get a bit bent out of shape.

 

As I said, I'm not saying this has anything to do with your approach to it personally, it was just that one phrase that sparked my reaction to voice this concern I already had in the back of my mind.

I see. Well, I can't say I disagree with that. The situation is certainly a lot more complex than I realised. Still, I'd rather people stop the twitter war and just resolve the problems civilly. The reckless anger I've seen from some people ruins the fun of a community and ruins the fun of the game


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#4 Happy Tree

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 16:32

I'd rather people stop the twitter war and just resolve the problems civilly.

 

A-men to that.



#5 Marc

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 19:07

You are aware of the recent 'Unofficial Dreamfall Chapters Fan Music Competition' ? I think that gives a positive spin to the situation.

 

Links:

 

http://redthreadgame...y-requirements/

 

Entries on soundcloud:

 

https://soundcloud.c...nofficial-album


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#6 Evilopoly90

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 19:39

You are aware of the recent 'Unofficial Dreamfall Chapters Fan Music Competition' ? I think that gives a positive spin to the situation.

 

Links:

 

http://redthreadgame...y-requirements/

 

Entries on soundcloud:

 

https://soundcloud.c...nofficial-album

Ah, I was about to suggest such a thing myself. It certainly seems to be the happy medium and hopefully the winning music will go towards the final game anyway.


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#7 Happy Tree

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 20:04

It won't. But RTG have responded by specifically implementing easy modding to allow us to add our own music if we want. That way we can do it ourselves but it's not officially in the game. There will be a folder for us to put in anything we like!



#8 br305893

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 20:04

However Ragnar has explained very clearly that there were "industry" representatives who got involved and were potentially going to make life difficult for some of the paid, professional people involved. 

 

Music industry reps can be very cold-hearted and difficult, something I know all too well from past experience... (I'm in my fourth year studying music management at college/university now.)



#9 mrKnask

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 20:35

PLEASE, LET THIS TOPIC REST, MOVE ALONG!

 

I'm unable to make recordings, and I've haven't had any inpiration to pick up my guitar in a year or two.

Anyway; at first I was stoked about the competition, and I was really really bummed out when it was cancelled.

 

But they (RTG) did what they had to do, and us fans/backers has picked up the pieces, RTG is on board, they'll even make it easy for music mods, and that's a hell of a great outcome of a shitty situation if you ask me!

 

I'll just end this the same way I started; LET IT REST (I think we've gained more than we lost)


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Affirmative, I will stop doing this thing that I love and makes me feel happy and follow you to our next stop
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#10 Evilopoly90

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 20:43

PLEASE, LET THIS TOPIC REST, MOVE ALONG!

 

I'm unable to make recordings, and I've haven't had any inpiration to pick up my guitar in a year or two.

Anyway; at first I was stoked about the competition, and I was really really bummed out when it was cancelled.

 

But they (RTG) did what they had to do, and us fans/backers has picked up the pieces, RTG is on board, they'll even make it easy for music mods, and that's a hell of a great outcome of a shitty situation if you ask me!

 

I'll just end this the same way I started; LET IT REST (I think we've gained more than we lost)

 

Honestly, after looking at the forums people here are taking it all pretty well from what I've seen. Twitter's another story but it's unimportant to the greater health of the RTG community anyway.  It's all pretty much been sorted and my queries answered so there's no problem from where I stand.


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Follow my Twitter to see my attempts to make every Celebrity roll SAN at least once!

 

 


#11 mrKnask

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 21:00

Yeah, feel free to hang out with us cool kids here in the oasis of the internet ;)
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Affirmative, I will stop doing this thing that I love and makes me feel happy and follow you to our next stop
on our depressing journey, what is your command human? How will I be tested now....?

 


#12 CosmicD

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 22:06

May I tell you that i am still very much angry against these so called professional industry golden boys who 1. wouldn't even think of so much as tunrning on their  audio workstation for RTG because of non payment, 2. Are very scrupulous and rusted in the past and may I mention 3. that attitude again makes us musicians look like a few lazy bums who are only greedy. They just determined that for everyone.

I saw on facebook that RTG asked us to add dreamfall to our wishlist and retweet that it's on GOG. Wow, shouldn't now some marketing goons come in and complain that RTG are also undermining the position of marketeers and promotion agencies ? Oh and why didn't graphics artists start to riot when overkill did the community contest to make 4 new mask desingns for payday 2, surely that crumbled the entire graphics sector as well.

Greedy musicians, you suck!

Sigh... sorry It has been probably a bad idea reading about this topic once again at 11 pm on a saturday, now I should continue to play gone home to relax..... in anticipation to book one!



#13 loranna238

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 08:11

 Hate to ask this but I've been off the wire for a bit.  What happened with the music competition? I just saw this post - I'm getting the idea it was cancelled due to union music industry considerations.  Is that the case? (looked to see in recent posts and on the main forum but didn't really see that much).



#14 toremygg

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 08:30

We're sort of conducting it unofficially. Just look for the right thread. :)



#15 Riaise

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 13:03

You can read the whole thing in this thread, from the very beginning. But as I understand it, when the competition was announced some people, including professional musicians, were upset that Red Thread seemed to be promoting the idea that it is acceptable to allow people to work for you for free under the guise of a "competition". Obviously, we know that this was not Red Thread's intention at all, but it all seemed to get a bit out of hand.



#16 toremygg

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 13:07

a bit out of hand.

Understatement of the year. :P


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#17 trentjaspar

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 17:48

A pretty good article on the topic, if you weren't following it earlier or want to re-hash it for some reason, is here on Kotaku.

 

In fact, you might even see a Kickstarter comment from a vaguely familiar name and avatar...


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#18 loranna238

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 06:52

You can read the whole thing in this thread, from the very beginning. But as I understand it, when the competition was announced some people, including professional musicians, were upset that Red Thread seemed to be promoting the idea that it is acceptable to allow people to work for you for free under the guise of a "competition". Obviously, we know that this was not Red Thread's intention at all, but it all seemed to get a bit out of hand.

I guess commenting on this would not help things lol



#19 urzagc13

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 12:18

A pretty good article on the topic, if you weren't following it earlier or want to re-hash it for some reason, is here on Kotaku.

In fact, you might even see a Kickstarter comment from a vaguely familiar name and avatar...


It may be because I'm biased in favor of RTG, but I actually found Nathan's article quite "bad", as far as presenting the pure facts of the situation/incident in a clear and concise way. I mean that, by reading it (and assuming I had no other information about what happened), even I was nearly getting the impression that RTG tried to make part of the game's soundtrack for free, which, as all we know here, couldn't be further from the truth. And Ragnar's quotes (especially when he wondered "how much should we pay?") can be so easily misread (and was, in the comment below) to mean that they trivialize the work of people.

What I mean is the following: I'm still waiting for an article to point the most important fact about this: This Contest practically amounted to nothing more than a bunch of Easter Eggs. It's not part of the game's Soundtrack, it wasn't necessary for the game to be completed (see how "easily" it was cancelled), it won't increase RTG's earnings, and thus no budget could be assigned to it (it was an afterthought, For the fans, By the fans). No professionals were asked to contribute, no one was even asked to work specifically on it (you could submit something you had made years ago), and the creators were keeping full rights over their creations.

EDIT: I think the problem was that the article was ABOUT people doing ACTUAL work for games for free* (making CORE parts of the games, that couldn't function without them), as demonstrated by the many other examples mentioned in the article, while RTG's case is totally different and shouldn't even be mentioned in the same page as those cases, instead of being presented as the "poster case" for this conflict.
*I still think there's room for discussion in these cases if free contributions on core parts of games are "ethical" or not. While I strongly disagree that there was ANY ethical issue (or even anything to debate) about a fan contest resulting in a bunch of musical Easter Eggs.
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