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#81 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 17:02

It might have been part of the core story all along, but not necessarily as an explorable location, which, IIRC, was what the stretch goal was about. It could have been planned as part of the interludes, for instance, or in scenes where key information would be given even if there was no player control of a playable character... if this makes any sense!...

 

I'm only going to quibble with this because of the phrasing in the original Kickstarter update. Recent bits that I've seen indicate that it likely plays a bigger role than I was anticipating. However, in the Kickstarter post on the subject, they mentioned that they'd been "toying" with the idea of including the HoAW in DFC, and then went on about how important it was in ways obvious and less obvious to various characters. And that if they hit the stretch goal, then obviously they'd be able to do just that. Which makes it sound like it was something they wanted to do, they had some great ideas for it, but they could do without if needed. 

 

But again, storytelling isn't a static thing. Plots, plans, and schemes grow and adapt and change in development. And I'm totally cool with it if the HoAW plays a way bigger role than I pictured when that stretch goal was first mentioned. 


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#82 Bruno

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 17:06

I'm only going to quibble with this because of the phrasing in the original Kickstarter update. Recent bits that I've seen indicate that it likely plays a bigger role than I was anticipating. However, in the Kickstarter post on the subject, they mentioned that they'd been "toying" with the idea of including the HoAW in DFC, and then went on about how important it was in ways obvious and less obvious to various characters. And that if they hit the stretch goal, then obviously they'd be able to do just that. Which makes it sound like it was something they wanted to do, they had some great ideas for it, but they could do without if needed. 

 

But again, storytelling isn't a static thing. Plots, plans, and schemes grow and adapt and change in development. And I'm totally cool with it if the HoAW plays a way bigger role than I pictured when that stretch goal was first mentioned. 

 

Ah, you are right. Sorry, I didn't go back to the Kickstarter update to check the exact wording.

Maybe, the role of HoAW was planned from the beginning but was going to be included in TLJH and not necessarily DF:C, though... And its role has been adjusted to fit into DL:C as well after the stretch goal was met... I don't know, this is all pure speculation, obviously.

I'm just glad we'll be able to go back and explore it :)


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#83 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 17:14

Well, from what I understand, the team sort of had their IDEAL version of DFC...And then before the Kickstarter they had to whittle it down to just the most important things and the very most basic core of the story they wanted to tell. 

 

Then, with stretch goals, they got to flesh that back out and bring back ideas and locations and things that were left on the cutting room floor. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they had original ideas to work in the HoAW, but then pushed those aside for time and budget reasons... But this stretch goal was a way for them to bring that back in and give the players something cool (the ability to fully explore the location). 

 

Since that option was opened up, based on what little we've seen/heard since then, I'm inclined to say that the HoAW may have grown in importance during development, but that's totally speculation. 

 

...Does that make sense? I sort of feel like I'm making my point poorly. 


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#84 Bruno

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 17:21

Well, from what I understand, the team sort of had their IDEAL version of DFC...And then before the Kickstarter they had to whittle it down to just the most important things and the very most basic core of the story they wanted to tell. 

 

Then, with stretch goals, they got to flesh that back out and bring back ideas and locations and things that were left on the cutting room floor. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they had original ideas to work in the HoAW, but then pushed those aside for time and budget reasons... But this stretch goal was a way for them to bring that back in and give the players something cool (the ability to fully explore the location). 

 

Since that option was opened up, based on what little we've seen/heard since then, I'm inclined to say that the HoAW may have grown in importance during development, but that's totally speculation. 

 

...Does that make sense? I sort of feel like I'm making my point poorly. 

 

Yes, it does :)

It looks very plausible, I think.

 

(and don't worry, from what I have seen here since I joined the forum, I'd say making your points poorly is not something you need to be afraid of, Erika :) )


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#85 Pawlo_86

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 19:27

house of ALL worlds - All worlds, it still exists after reunification of Stark and Arcadia,

Storytime - the place were every story is told, the stories which create the whole universe,

 

Its possible that HOAW and Storytime are connected. Maybe HOAW its just a house located in Storytime? :P 



#86 Riaise

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 19:52

The Storytime definitely has some weird time-thing going on, given that Brian was there for nearly 300 years but didn't age, so they may be connected.



#87 Pawlo_86

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 20:01

Zoe: I'm dead?

Vagabond: I don't know. It doesn't matter here. Here you just simple are.

 

Zoe: This is the Storytime. Its the place between.



#88 magic88889

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 21:44

http://en.wikipedia...._(spirituality)

 

 

Just something I found back when Dreamfall first came out that might be relevent to this discuassion.



#89 urzagc13

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 22:19

 

In all honesty, though I really didn't think that we'd fine out much new about Lady Alvane in Chapters. I sort of assumed that since the mystery was introduced in TLJ, it would be wrapped up in TLJH. It still might.

 

I'm also not expecting for this "mystery" to wrap up in Chapters, it doesn't fit thematically to do so, I agree. What I've been always expecting -and still think we're going to get- is more clues and pieces of the Alvane puzzle that will allow us to reignite the speculation about her identity (with access to new "data"). I don't want to derail the thread again, but given my "conviction" that The White Lady = Lady Alvane, I felt that Dreamfall did just that (gave us a few more clues about her), though it did it in a very "sneaky" way, so that most people didn't even realize that there were clues (about LA) to see.

 

Maybe this is a good time and place to remember this blog post from Ragnar's old blog back in 2003, which refers to the Lady Alvane Mystery:

 

Yes, that's exactly the post I was telling about (and I think there was one interview from back then as well), where Ragnar tries really hard to squash any April = Lady Alvane "certainties", and that's years before Dreamfall came about. Of course it's still entirely possible that Lady Alvane will turn out to be April at the end (and Ragnar is simply doing what he does for the sake of his beloved "mystery"), but in case that LA is *not* April, posts like this serve as sufficient proof (in my opinion) against any allegations of post-TLJ "retcons" of her identity.

 

Lady Alvane: How strange to remember April Ryan. It was long, long time ago. Now MY time is also coming to end...

 

That particular phrase is probably the strongest (in-game) argument against the April = Lady Alvane theory. And I even think that the very subtleties of the way that line is performed support that interpretation. It's still entirely possible though to "justify" that phrase even if April = LA: the most obvious way being with the cliche "I'm no longer the person I once was" (so I can talk about myself in the 3rd person, too!). And with all the fuss about "Rebirth" being a big theme in Dreamfall: Chapters ... you never know.

 

 

Its possible that HOAW and Storytime are connected. Maybe HOAW its just a house located in Storytime?  :P

 

Storytime and the HOAW certainly seem to share a number of "qualities", so I wouldn't be surprised if they turn out to be strongly connected. The only snag I see in that is that probably Storytime wasn't yet envisioned when TLJ was made, so unless Storytime was then specifically created by Ragnar as an "expansion" of what the HOAW was originally supposed to be, there shouldn't be a connection between the two.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia...._(spirituality)

 

Just something I found back when Dreamfall first came out that might be relevent to this discuassion.

 

Almost all of the Dream-related plot in Dreamfall is inspired by the Aboriginal mythology (such as the living Dreamcore computer called Eingana). The "problem" is that we haven't yet found much connecting the House of All Worlds with Dreams. We have it connected with Storytelling though...


Giorgos Chrysikopoulos - Dream Traveller

 

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#90 Pawlo_86

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 07:15

House Of All Worlds is a place where Lady Alvane tells the story of April Ryan. During events in TLJ April visits House Of All Worlds and talks with Lady Alvane. Both House Of All Worlds and Storytime are places where stories are told. And both places seem to be between worlds, outside time etc.

 

In TLJ Cortez told April that to shift between Stark and Arcadia she must pass world of dreams. And after shift April appeared in Temple in Marcuria - Dream Chamber is located below.



#91 khh

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 09:35

There is also the possibility that the scene with Crow and Lady Alvane wasn't meant for us to recognize that Lady Alvane was April Ryan, but rather to show us that Crow is a very, very special bird.


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April Ryan is my friend,
Every sorrow she can mend.
When I visit her dark realm,
Does it simply overwhelm.


#92 Dmm

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 13:18

There is also the possibility that the scene with Crow and Lady Alvane wasn't meant for us to recognize that Lady Alvane was April Ryan, but rather to show us that Crow is a very, very special bird.

 

No matter Ragnar's intent most people took it to indicate that eventually April becomes the Lady Alvane. I would say that is the main reason people came to that conclusion. I know I did. I doubt many people would have thought that April = Lady Alvane if Crow had not made an appearance.


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#93 rgochnour

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 01:18

The way I view it, Lady Alvane would have been April if there was no sequel. Ragnar may already have had the plan for the sequels and the other characters, including how someone else is actually Lady Alvane, but the scene was obviously meant as closure if TLJ had to stand entirely on it's own. That would not be a retcon exactly, but at the same time LA being April would not be a red herring exactly either. Rather Lady Alvanes exists as a probability function, and it's only by directly measuring it (in the sequel) that the probability function collapses to a definitive identity.

 

At least it makes sense to think of it that way for me.

 

This must be Ragnar's cat  :D

 

I'm just recently going through the forums and when I came across this, I couldn't help myself...


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#94 Maus Merryjest

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 22:27

No matter Ragnar's intent most people took it to indicate that eventually April becomes the Lady Alvane. I would say that is the main reason people came to that conclusion. I know I did. I doubt many people would have thought that April = Lady Alvane if Crow had not made an appearance.

 

 

And now the cliffhangers from Book II, crow showing up at Kian's mother's window... and the implication that she knows him quite well (even though he's a magical talking animal... interesting) suddenly throws another candidate into the pot for Lady Alvane. And this one doesn't need to get married or change her name to fit ;)


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#95 wandrew

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 23:16

As far as we know, Kian's an orphan. It seems she just played a (significant) role in raising him. While it's possible they share the name Alvane, we don't yet know.

#96 Indrid Cold

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 12:57

Whoever she is, she knows April's story really, really well. So if she's not April (in one way or another) then she's someone very close to her, or someone very close to someone very close to her.

Interesting idea: If Lady Alvane isn't April (in one way or another) then TLJ is a second-hand story and could contain mistakes. That's a possible explanation for the discrepancies between it and DF!


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#97 Dmm

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 13:58

Mother Utana doe not seem like the adventuring type and that is a prerequisite for the position of Lady Alvane.



#98 Vincy85

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 15:15

I know who is Lady Alvane but i keep the secret for me  :D

 

P.S Long time i don't visit this forum..






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