97 replies to this topic

[Bruno]

The way I view it, Lady Alvane would have been April if there was no sequel. Ragnar may already have had the plan for the sequels and the other characters, including how someone else is actually Lady Alvane, but the scene was obviously meant as closure if TLJ had to stand entirely on it's own. That would not be a retcon exactly, but at the same time LA being April would not be a red herring exactly either. Rather Lady Alvanes exists as a probability function, and it's only by directly measuring it (in the sequel) that the probability function collapses to a definitive identity.

 

At least it makes sense to think of it that way for me.

 

I had never seen a mathematical approach to the LA mystery, I like it! 

[Dmm]

But that would make her a dreamer wouldnt it ? Also Zoe needs a physical way to do what she does. She needs to be hooked up to a dreamer and the wire, plus take a bunch of drugs. Unless the stark telecom/wire service has started installations to the house of all worlds, I have problems with that theory lol

 

I think what Bruno pointed out is most important, we do not at this time know where the House of All Worlds is located, it may have a connection to the Storytime or even reside in the Storytime, thus allowing Lady Alvane to contact Faith. Until we know for certain where the House of All Worlds is located we cannot rule out that Lady Alvane is the white lady. Right now as far as I am concerned the identity of the white lady is not knowable, we just don't have enough information.

[urzagc13]

I couldn't agree more with KHH's post. I'm of the opinion that if Lady Alvane turns out *not* being April, then she *wasn't* April either when The Longest Journey was released (if we could look at Ragnar's notes of the time), so that would actually not be a *true* retcon, though it's easy to be seen like one by the players, given the ending of The Longest Journey. That's also one reason why I'm more critical of Alvane "candidates" that haven't appeared in the original game (like Zoe herself).

 

I also agree with KHH (and Vainamoinen) in that, regardless of Alvane's true identity, she was presented in such a way as to leave the vast majority of the players (and some translators apparently) *certain* that she was April, which gave an excellent feeling of full circle/closure (and self-containment), essential for a game that was not confirmed at the time of having a sequel. Aka, if she's not really April, I imagine the thought process being: "it's ok for people to think she is April, for now". And "if we ever *do* get to make a sequel, the truth would prove to be an astounding revelation that would stay in the mind of the players" (if executed well, I'd add)

 

EDIT: My hypothetical "thought process" above [offtopic: we need a "in the mind of Ragnar Tornquist" feature film, ASAP], *IF* accurate, may tick some people the wrong way (it's "dishonest!" "trickery!") but, if you think about it, it isn't. Because the purpose of the storyteller/game developer isn't to be honest with you (regarding the Story! not anything else) but to craft the most immersive and emotionally satisfying experience for you, which includes surprising the audience, playing with their expectations, etc., if the story requires to do so. I for one have always been incredibly happy to have the carpet pulled under my feet, in movies (e.g. 6th sense, Empire Strikes Back), books (e.g. Agatha Christie novels), video games (e.g. Knights of the Old Republic) or TV Series (e.g. Puella Magi Madoka Magica). I've never thought of a (well-presented!) twist as "ruining" what's come before, even if it shatters my long-built preconceptions to pieces. Now, for badly-executed twists ...   

[Silvirish4ever]

Ha. No, the resource name does not confirm this — I didn't name those resources! And whoever did was probably not privy to the continuation of the story. I also know that in some translations of TLJ, the character was explicitly identified as April, but that's a mistranslation or misinterpretation.

 

That's what you get when you don't hire trustworthy translators! *winkwink*

[Vainamoinen]

Because the purpose of the storyteller/game developer isn't to be honest with you (regarding the Story! not anything else) but to craft the most immersive and emotionally satisfying experience for you, which includes surprising the audience, playing with their expectations, etc., if the story requires to do so.

I've heard the art of storytelling described a bit differently (by Francis Glebas if I'm not mistaken): The most satisfying conclusion to a story is one expected by the audience, but it is reached in a surprising and novel way.

That's kind of how I see the April/Alvane mystery working out.

[urzagc13]

I don't quite agree with that quote. Oh, I'm certain that it's one path to good storytelling (and the most popular probably), but I strongly disagree that it's the only one. Or that it leads necessarily to the most satisfying conclusion. As I said above, actually a big number of my personal favorite moments in fiction are of the totally unexpected variety, though I also like several common "tropes" as well, like the "cavalry" that comes at the right moment to save the day.

 

And don't tell me that you expected that April was *not* going to be the next Guardian after all that had happened up to that point. That was one totally unexpected crazy twist (that made the story better) right there! Crow's appearance at the House of All Worlds at the very end (and the sudden "revelation" -whether it's true or not- that Lady Alvane was probably April) was actually another twist, for that matter.

[Vainamoinen]

And don't tell me that you expected that April was *not* going to be the next Guardian after all that had happened up to that point. That was one totally unexpected crazy twist (that made the story better) right there! Crow's appearance at the House of All Worlds at the very end (and the sudden "revelation" -whether it's true or not- that Lady Alvane was probably April) was actually another twist, for that matter.

That quote is of course wide open to interpretation. Concerning TLJ, maybe the expectation was that it will be a happy end, and that the Balance would be saved. The surprising way in which this happened was that April would not be the Guardian...

...I absolutely see what you mean of course.

[spyked]

I think what Bruno pointed out is most important, we do not at this time know where the House of All Worlds is located, it may have a connection to the Storytime or even reside in the Storytime, thus allowing Lady Alvane to contact Faith. Until we know for certain where the House of All Worlds is located we cannot rule out that Lady Alvane is the white lady. Right now as far as I am concerned the identity of the white lady is not knowable, we just don't have enough information.

 

I find it very probable that the House of All Worlds resides in the Storytime. This is wild speculation on my part, but I think that the start screen from the Rezzed and Gamescom demos is located in the House of All Worlds, since the walls are wooden and the windows are blue-ey. Now, one argument against that would be the trees outside in the second demo, but the snow kinda looks like the Storytime.

 

Another two pieces of the puzzle are the photos of the baby and the girl in the first demo (they actually look like the same person to me). The baby was already mentioned in one of Ragnar's tweets (two of them, actually!), tagged as #HoAW. Might this be an indication that this is our Lady Alvane? And/or maybe our third exciting new heroine? Maybe the blonde girl is in some way related to April? I'm not really sure, just throwing some ideas under scrutiny.

[Lee-m]

I think what Bruno pointed out is most important, we do not at this time know where the House of All Worlds is located, it may have a connection to the Storytime or even reside in the Storytime, thus allowing Lady Alvane to contact Faith. Until we know for certain where the House of All Worlds is located we cannot rule out that Lady Alvane is the white lady. Right now as far as I am concerned the identity of the white lady is not knowable, we just don't have enough information.

I think thats a good point. It will take some serious explaining to describe how Faith is in dreamcore/the wire in stark, and in a place connected with the storytime, simultaneously. And how TWL (or LA) gets in and out of there with apparent ease.

But hey, im up for that. Roll on the 31st of October so we can find out

[thelj]

Maybe the blonde girl is in some way related to April? I'm not really sure, just throwing some ideas under scrutiny.

 

Well,April was blonde when she was a little girl.

[Pawlo_86]

White Lady can be White Kin after attack in library. Maybe someone killed her but Dragons are immortal so she became White Lady. There is also possiblity that death of April and Sister willl lead to the creation of new White Dragon - reborn of Mother - in TLJ Mother said that April is a mother of future.

 

That Baby is pretty interesting and its very possible that Dreamfall Chapters Title Screen is set in House Of All Worlds.

[darkshuria]

I love this mystery. I hope Lady Alvane is April. But... Mystery is important

[toremygg]

So, if April is Lady Alvane, then we have a temporal paradox. Aren't those generally frowned upon in civil society? Did we discuss this already

[khh]

So, if April is Lady Alvane, then we have a temporal paradox. Aren't those generally frowned upon in civil society? Did we discuss this already

We have, but that was years ago. I also remember that Ragnar has made some statement about his view on timetravel on his old, old blog, but I can't remember what exactly he said.

 

edit: Timetravel, not timetable 

[Bruno]

So, if April is Lady Alvane, then we have a temporal paradox. Aren't those generally frowned upon in civil society? Did we discuss this already

 

Lady Alvane was probably reading several books at the same time, she should have seen that coming! 

[toremygg]

Lady Alvane was probably reading several books at the same time, she should have seen that coming! 

Hey, not my fault that my brain recycles!

[Bruno]

Hey, not my fault that my brain recycles!

 

(I went back to check if your post in the other thread was still there, just to be sure that we weren't the ones stuck in some sort of weird temporal paradox...  )

[agirlnamedbob]

Well, if the baby is tagged HoAW, maybe it's Lady Alvane's baby. 

 

Or, you know, baby April. 

 

...OR BOTH...

 

[Bruno]

Well, if the baby is tagged HoAW, maybe it's Lady Alvane's baby. 

 

Or, you know, baby April. 

 

...OR BOTH...

 

 

But Erika... Wouldn't that mean that April... WOULD BE HER OWN MOTHER?!?!...  

 

[agirlnamedbob]

April had a confusing childhood. We know this already.

 

Though that would only be if April is in fact Lady Alvane. 

 

I'm honestly just throwing things out there since we seem to be careening into a Whovian level family tree time paradox thing. 

 

In all honesty, though I really didn't think that we'd fine out much new about Lady Alvane in Chapters. I sort of assumed that since the mystery was introduced in TLJ, it would be wrapped up in TLJH. It still might. But indications seem to be that the HoAW won't just make a token appearance in the game, but be somewhat important. I'm sort of inclined to agree about the title screen being there. It does have a similar feel to it.