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#1 swamplady

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 20:17

I have just finished both TLJ1 and TLJ2 again and the character of Lady Alvane still really ingrigues me. Who is she? The plot seems to be "suggesting" it's April in the future... but I am not too sure. She was not present in the Dreamfall, but there was a character (Kian) with the same surname there, which cannot be a coincidence. Will she be there in the Chapters? She has to be someone importatnt to the story as otherwise... it would just feel disproportional.

 

So I have gathered some facts up together about Lady Alvane and possible characters:

 

1) Lady Alvane has been travelling with Crow in the past (so can be April, Zoe or someone new)

2) Changed surname to Alvane, so her original surname was different

3) Knows April well (April, Zoe, White Dragon, Emma)

4) April recognizes her at the age of 18 (so maybe older April, Emma. (Or maybe April's real mother, who looks similiar to her, but then the Crow being there would make no sence))

5) Knows the whole story of TLJ (so far only April and maybe The White Dragon, but could well be Zoe or Emma)

6) Has the ability to open shift / doorway through dimension (April? The White Dragon? The Goddess?)

7) Is a storyteller (Zoe? Faith? The White Dragon?)

8) Lives in the Storyland, the dreamland, the world in between where April has never been (so Zoe? White Dragon? Faith? Some other dreamer?)

9) Bares the same surname as Kian so there has to be some bliood relation. Either she is his wife, daugter, mother, sister? We know too little about Kian though to be able to say but he doesn't seem to be able to Shift himself, which he probably would be able to if he was son or brother...

10) Lady Alvane has some regular GUESTS to listen to her stories. How come there are some people there in the world in between? Has the world in between been inhabited by that time?

11) As a counterpoint to point 10. It has been mentioned that not long after the evenings from the TLJ, the balance has fallen. So does that mean there actually is no Stark and Arcadia, that there is just one world? Altough Lady Alvane says herself: This is the world in between as if there still have been the 3 worlds.

 

Less important notes:

12) Has books, and April proudly says she doesn't read

13) Crow and her seem to be good long-term friends. So Emma and White Dragon or April's mom makes no sence

14) Has a very neutral accent... So Zoe with her British accent is difficul to pull off... But then again, this is an old lady, accents change

15) Looking at lady Alvane's posture - she cannot be Bireanne

16) Livees in a simple, cosy dwelling, so cannot be anyone too rich

 

 

So having all this in mind seems that the most probably characters are April or Zoe

 

Supportive for April theory:

1) Apart from the Deamland, all fits. We don't know what will happen with the world until the time April is old

2) I don't think April died per se in Dreamfall. The prophecies said that she will first help restore the Balance only to finally break it... This still didn't happen, she still has obligations :P. I think Na'ane will try to heal her

3) She might end up marrying Kian and taking his name to finally end up April Ryan chapter

 

Supportive for Zoe theory:

1) Storytelling and living in the dreamland. Most things also fit

2) The fact that April seem to have recognized Lady Alvane in TLJ 10 years before she met Zoe.... I don't know, but there could have been some time travells. Maybe Zoe meets April as she is a child in Chapters... This could be fixed up

3) She also can end up marrying Kian

 

I personally still think it's April. It just makes sence. So what do you think?

 

 


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#2 toremygg

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 20:53

I believe we know for a fact that Ragnar originally meant LA to be April. The resource name in TLJ confirms this. However, R has indicated that this has changed. We don't know when, but either during the final stages of TLJ development or during Dreamfall planning or development.

That to me means the most likely candidate is Zoë. Or Chapters PC 3, if that is not April.


Then again, Ragnar has been known to change his mind... ;)

#3 Ragnar

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 21:36

I believe we know for a fact that Ragnar originally meant LA to be April. The resource name in TLJ confirms this. However, R has indicated that this has changed. We don't know when, but either during the final stages of TLJ development or during Dreamfall planning or development.

That to me means the most likely candidate is Zoë. Or Chapters PC 3, if that is not April.


Then again, Ragnar has been known to change his mind... ;)

 

Ha. No, the resource name does not confirm this — I didn't name those resources! And whoever did was probably not privy to the continuation of the story. I also know that in some translations of TLJ, the character was explicitly identified as April, but that's a mistranslation or misinterpretation.

 

I'm not saying who she is, what she is, whether she is or isn't, but I do want to make it very clear that we haven't changed anything. The truth is always a lot more complex than it seems. And whoever Lady Alvane is, it certainly hasn't been revealed yet.


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#4 toremygg

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 22:28

I stand corrected. Or sit. Not saying where, though.

For once I don't mind being corrected, though. A bit like that dog on the old HMV logo...

#5 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 22:36

I'm still firmly in the "Kian's traumatic time in Friar's Keep has led to a period of deep questioning of his own identity, in which he discovers he's actually always been a woman and after many perils and lots of personal discovery becomes Lady Alvane" camp. 

 

;) 


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#6 toremygg

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 22:39

This SO explains the "the penis has to go" thing!
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#7 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 22:52

Yes. Continuing the omission of penises that began with Dreamfall, Dreamfall Chapters intends to bring the story we've all really been waiting for full circle. 


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#8 thelj

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 23:53

The LA scenes in TLJ,very naturally lead you to believe that LA is April.I mean,i don't know how many people didn't think that.Particularly the people who played TLJ first, before DF,and didn't know anything about Zoe etc.

 

If we want to get technical,i admit,LA is not April.Rather,April is LA or whatever her real/full name is.She was adopted and April Ryan is the name she got from her adoptive parents.We don't know who/what she really is or even her real name.  :P


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#9 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 00:11

I definitely played TLJ first, but I never felt it was "definitive" that LA was April. 

 

And since Dreamfall with the addition of Kian, things are now more complicated. Potentially. 

 

I'm not against LA being April. But if if ____ Alvane is April's real, non-adopted name then that totally messes up my Kian/April ship, as they'd likely be related in some fashion, then. And lends a bit of a Luke/Leigh vibe to some of their interactions in Dreamfall. 

 

(Go ahead. Tell me they weren't totally flirting. I DARE you to. :P)


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#10 urzagc13

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 00:32

Welcome to the forum, swamplady!

 

As the self-appointed "expert" on all things Alvane (I didn't get a PhD on Alvan-ism for nothing you know ;) ), allow me to offer my perspective on the subject. The following is a slightly rewritten version of a post I had made on the Kickstarter comments page while the campaign was still running:

 

At the end of The Longest Journey almost everyone was dead certain that April = Lady Alvane, thanks to clues like:

- April thinking the old lady looked familiar

- Alvane's "my legs hurt" comment (remember April as a kid had leg problems),

- Alvane's knowing what April's friends thought of the danger she put them in,

- And of course -mainly- due to Crow's appearance. (also we had no alternative person to turn our suspicions towards)

 

But after Dreamfall, which proved things such as Crow being willing to sidekick himself to any Starkian chick he encounters (the little traitor - lol) and not just April, the whole mystery with "the White Lady" (which is 99.999% certain for me that is no other than Lady Alvane herself, btw) trying to "save April" and Ragnar's many comments on the subject (see above for a brand new one), I'm not so sure anymore.

 

Kian's surname and what seemed like an "attraction" to April, appear to support the original TLJ theory - an eventual marriage between the two, April taking the name Alvane, etc. - but I personally find it to be a red herring (and I'm still an April - Charlie shipper! ;) ). I strongly believe that April and Kian (an orphan with a mystery surrounding his heritage, exactly like April herself, and with a name -Alvane- that means "white", like the White Dragon) will turn out to be siblings, children of the White of the Kin (and also both Shifters, btw), separated at birth, and thus the familiarity they felt towards each other. 

 

And who -then- is Lady Alvane? I once thought of Zoe (you know, the STORYTELLER, like Lady Alvane), but there's the problem with Zoe's english accent - and I don't think she'd ever marry Kian (not her type, lol). Also, I do believe that a character present in the original The Longest Journey has more chances of being Lady Alvane (given that Ragnar claims he hasn't changed the lady's identity, it's who she's always been from that start), which rules Zoe out.

 

So, what is my current hypothesis on who Lady Alvane/The White Lady is?

It's one option that you already mentioned, swamplady: Emma!

Clues that support that theory:

- According to her own words in Dreamfall, Emma has been researching about the Balance after April's dissapearance and the events of the Collapse,

- knows EVEN BETTER than April how they felt when she was shot,

- could easily end up also sidekicking with Crow and becoming "the Warrior Princess that singlehandedly won the war of the Balance" (in the next sequel of the saga, The Longest Journey Home, of course)

- could marry her best friend's - April's - brother, Kian, and take his surname,

- Lady Alvane seems "familiar" to April, because she's freaking Emma (I think April would have recognized her older self easier than an old Emma)

- she would be truthful when she said that "it was nice to remember again ... April Ryan" (and not referring to herself in the 3rd person).

For all that to happen, we only need to find a way for her to cross the divide without being a Shifter, but I think we've already been given that: the Brian Westhouse way! With her money and influence, she could potentially track down Westhouse's diary and attempt to repeat what he did (the Undreaming is not there anymore anyway to hold her hostage for hundreds of years, or Zoe could help her "navigate" through Storytime) and there you have it. It's also possible that she could meet with Kian even without her going to Arcadia, when Kian (I'm sure of it) opens his first Shift and ends up in Stark.

 

Final note: at this point, a lot of possibilities still remain open. Lady Alvane could end up just being April (and Ragnar has just been trying to keep the mystery alive by refusing to admit that all these years*), or she could end up being Zoe (the least likely option at this point, in my opinion), or Emma or even someone else entirely. But she is definitely The White Lady, the one that actually put the events of Dreamfall into motion.

 

*btw, it's a fact that there are interviews with Ragnar well before Dreamfall was even a thing, where he makes a point that Lady Alvane's identity is *not* specified, regardless of what some translated versions may (wrongly) have said. That serves to "reinforce" his reply to toremygg that didn't change her original identity between the games.


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#11 Lee-m

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 00:50

the whole mystery with "the White Lady" (which is 99.999% certain for me that is no other than Lady Alvane herself, btw)

I would like to hear how you came to that conclusion. It seems reasonable, but I could never really draw the dots between.

I have never really been on board with the whole Emma is LA, there are a few issues with her crossing over. The getting unstuck from time part isnt down to the undreaming as far as I know. But there is a whole other game (or two) yet, much can happen :) For example a failing balance could play a part in letting people cross over.

#12 thelj

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 00:50

I can't say i felt it was definitive,but it was strongly implied and i thought it has to be her(not it is her 100%).

 

I'm not into the shipping thing,but if it makes you feel better,Alvane could be a title of some sort (i can't think of a more suitable word) and not a last name.To be honest,i would rather they didn't go that route.I think Zoe and...umm..boyfriend are enough for the romantic plots fans,and i wouldn't care for an April-Kian pairing. She would be better off with her oversized smurf ex.  :lol:

 

Well,i will accept the dare and say that,no,i didn't think they were flirting.Though,i can see that their interaction can be interpreted that way.


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#13 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 01:02

I'm not particularly invested in any TLJ/DF ships, to be honest. It's not super my thing, either. Not like it is in some fandoms and like on Tumblr, anyway. 

 

I did feel like there was something in that realm going on with Kian and April, though. And I was okay with that. I like the idea of Kian + April (...Kiapril? Aprian? O.o; ) I'd find it a little weird if they turned out to be siblings, but I suppose I'd have to see how it was presented in the context of the story. And it seems to fit with some of the theories of who Lady Alvane is (i.e. April herself or perhaps her child). 

 

But that's definitely not why I play the games. So I'm not really looking for some sort of overt love plot in DFC. *shrug* If I wanted super shipping action, I'd play a dating sim.

 

(And if we're being honest, I'd probably play a TLJ/DF Dating Sim before I played the Grand Theft Europolis game mentioned in another thread.)  


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#14 thelj

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 01:16

As i said above,we don't know her real name.You may be right that they will end up together,so she gets the name Alvane from Kian.Personally,as i said in the previous forum (and i'm too lazy to analyze my reasoning again),i lean more towards a blood relation between them.


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#15 br305893

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 01:19

Lady Alvane always seemed to me like she was supposed to be April, but then again, I think it's supposed to be kind of an open ended question to her true identity.



#16 urzagc13

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 01:19

I'll admit I'm less confident about my Emma theory than I was about 2 years ago, when the Kickstarter was running. But I still find her being the most *reasonable* candidate (after April herself of course, which I reject mostly based on my own reading of Ragnar's comments about Lady Alvane throughout all those years.)

@Lee-m: the White-Lady-is-Lady-Alvane thing is something that I like to bring up every time the talk comes to this subject (I obviously put a lot of effort highlighting it -twice- in my previous post as well) because it seems to me so blatantly obvious, while the vast majority of people haven't made that connection or (even worse) tend to think of people like The White Dragon or Helena Chang for that role instead. Why I find it so obvious? Because:
- Reason one: appearance. When asked about how the White Lady looks like, Faith says "she's all white". Given that everyone entering Faith's world automagically gets white garments, this comment almost certainly means that the White Lady also has white hair (Chang ruled out) and quite pale skin (both Lady Alvane and the White of the Kin qualify still)
- Reason 2: knowledge, too much knowledge of things yet to occur both in Stark and Arcadia. In comparison, the White Kin even seems surprised encountering a Dreamer like Zoe. The way TWL guided Faith to guide Zoe into "saving" April (and the cryptic message that she *did* save her - somehow - despite what Zoe's eyes saw) can only imply that she's from the future and knows how they story went already.
- Reason 3: consistency in behavior: Lady Alvane and the White Lady seem to look after April and save her in critical moments of her journey.
- Reason 4: conservation of detail: when (in a fictional story) you already have a character like Lady Alvane, who fits in appearance, means and behavior with The White Lady, it doesn't make sense to introduce yet another character for that role. If it looks like a dog, and barks like a dog, and smells like a dog, it's probably a dog.

EDIT: forgot one more reason: being able to "visit" Faith on a whim. No non-dreamer person seemed able to do that during Dreamfall, but Lady Alvane should be able to just open her portal-door directly to Faith's Realms (if she can use it to connect across time and space she should be able to do that as well). The House of All Worlds probably has some kind of connection to Storytime anyway (as did Faith's Realm), for it being "in between" in a reunited world.
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#17 thelj

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 01:43

I'm also a fan of the LA is TWL theory and i agree with your points,but where exactly did you get that from?

 

Given that everyone entering Faith's world automagically gets white garments, 



#18 Lee-m

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 01:51

Thanks for that, it was a good read. I personally never made a decision in my mind as to who TWL or LA is. I've always been happy to discover that stuff as the story goes, but when it comes up on the forums I like to read and think about it.
 

EDIT: forgot one more reason: being able to "visit" Faith on a whim.

I would rule out almost everyone except LA and another dreamer based on this, and this alone. We dont know of any other dreamers, and that would be a abit lame, so we can rule that out.

The drac kin don't go shifting about to other realms. From what I can tell from the story(s) they seem to be stuck in their respective worlds (2 in stark, 2 in arcadia) and they cant move about (with the exception of getting into the guardians realm if required, and that maybe even under specific circumstances). Cortez and McAllen couldn't. If they could, who would need shifters ?

I'm not even sure a shifter could get to the winter, its not a physical realm, and this for me is the only real stumbling block with LA and her magic door being able to get to, and talk to Faith. It would seem to require more technology than magic.
 

I'm also a fan of the LA is TWL theory and i agree with your points,but where exactly did you get that from?

Faith has control over the realm, and seems to dress her self, and Zoe in white.

#19 thelj

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 02:13

Faith has control over the realm, and seems to dress her self, and Zoe in white.

 

I wouldn't call that dressing.More like undressing. :P

 

Well,Faith was wearing the white dress before she created the Winter,and the Winter is a suitable (unpopulated) place to have Zoe walking around in her undies,which happen to be white.Was TWL also sporting a pair of white undies?  :lol:

 

What i'm asking is if the clothes quote is just an assumption or if it was actually mentioned in the game and i don't remember it.



#20 Ringtail

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 02:33

I wouldn't call that dressing.More like undressing. :P

 

 

The Undressing is Unleashed! :D

 

And for what it's worth, I'm in the "LA is April" camp, and also the "Kian and April are siblings" camp.  Undecided on the White Lady, though I like the reasoning of the "White Lady is Lady Alvane" crowd.  :)






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