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Finally Finished the Game - Things I hated


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#1 Uhuru N'Uru

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 19:13

I was a Kickstarter backer, and hated the episodic release so much, I never even started the game, until the Final release was long done.

I wanted no part of the episodic release format present in the game, and I don't mean the Chapters structure, I mean the artificial splitting into 5 "Books", to sell the game in "Episodes".

 

So I was dismayed to find that still part of the final release, I found the gameplay breaks, and forced restarts extremely annoying.

Also the overly long summarising of the choices I made, when every "important choice" (Not really that important in most cases), was made blatantly obvious, when I was making them.

 

I also hated the what others chose system, ripped directly from telltale (hate it in their games as well), and the fact I still saw the system, even when I played always offline.

 

As for the puzzles, a few small trigger points were extremely irritating, the chain ride up the tower, was an example, the entire chain should have shown the hand, not just a small region higher up, above my head.

The worst puzzle was the tidy up the 9 drawings hunt, that one was just annoying, and not fun, or even sensible, for a toddler to have hidden them all, when they supposedly needed tidying away.

That would have been much better if just scattered in the floor, and the putting in order on the walls, part was the only puzzle part.

 

The story wasn't perfect, and some parts made no sense, Anna's absense after the stabbing for one, but for the most partI enjoyed the story, barring obvious plot holes. and some inconsistancies, between the three games.

It was the way the final edition was still in episode format, with the five summaries, and restarts, that was the worst part.

It should have cut these out, completely, and just started the next chapter, in the completed final game, there were 14 chapters, and a few interludes, which should have been the all that was required.

Having waited so long to make sure the final complete game, with all patching done, was what I played. Seeing the forced joins, still showing the seams, and taking me out of the game, was the most dissapoining part.



#2 Edreamer Jamil

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 20:00

I was a Kickstarter backer, and hated the episodic release so much, I never even started the game, until the Final release was long done.

I wanted no part of the episodic release format present in the game, and I don't mean the Chapters structure, I mean the artificial splitting into 5 "Books", to sell the game in "Episodes".

 

So I was dismayed to find that still part of the final release, I found the gameplay breaks, and forced restarts extremely annoying.

Also the overly long summarising of the choices I made, when every "important choice" (Not really that important in most cases), was made blatantly obvious, when I was making them.

 

I also hated the what others chose system, ripped directly from telltale (hate it in their games as well), and the fact I still saw the system, even when I played always offline.

 

As for the puzzles, a few small trigger points were extremely irritating, the chain ride up the tower, was an example, the entire chain should have shown the hand, not just a small region higher up, above my head.

The worst puzzle was the tidy up the 9 drawings hunt, that one was just annoying, and not fun, or even sensible, for a toddler to have hidden them all, when they supposedly needed tidying away.

That would have been much better if just scattered in the floor, and the putting in order on the walls, part was the only puzzle part.

 

The story wasn't perfect, and some parts made no sense, Anna's absense after the stabbing for one, but for the most partI enjoyed the story, barring obvious plot holes. and some inconsistancies, between the three games.

It was the way the final edition was still in episode format, with the five summaries, and restarts, that was the worst part.

It should have cut these out, completely, and just started the next chapter, in the completed final game, there were 14 chapters, and a few interludes, which should have been the all that was required.

Having waited so long to make sure the final complete game, with all patching done, was what I played. Seeing the forced joins, still showing the seams, and taking me out of the game, was the most dissapoining part.

 

The final release hasn't happened yet



#3 khh

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 12:23

I mean the artificial splitting into 5 "Books", to sell the game in "Episodes".

The game was developed in episodes, but only ever sold as a whole. It wasn't an artificial split, it was one they needed to do to develop a game of this scope with a team the size they had.

And as Jamil pointed out, it's not the final version yet.

Other than that those seem like fair criticisms.


(disclaimer: I'm just a mod in the forums, I don't work for RTG)

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Every sorrow she can mend.
When I visit her dark realm,
Does it simply overwhelm.


#4 MisterMetropolis

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 20:47

They said that they want to make it more like a single game without the breaks in the final version, anyway. It releases in May.


"But even if we don't reach that lofty goal this time around, we hope to some day still be able to tell this story. April's story, all of it. All that remains of it. Because it needs to be told. And you all deserve to hear it. And we would love to share it with you." - RTG, March 1, 2013

 

"Even if we don't get to $2 million, we will still look into ways of making The Longest Journey Home a reality...some day. It's a story we all want to tell, and we won't let it die.- RTG, March 9, 2013


#5 Uhuru N'Uru

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 22:16

Well, having not played it, I was avoiding reading anything about it, I was talking about the Redux Version, that I only knew about, when it appeared as a GOG update..

I was fine with waiting for that, and gave it a further six months, for bugfixing, but expected it to have the joins removed, in that edition released at the games completion.

I believe there was also an update in January, monthys after full game was out.

It's not a big task, to remove them and just go to the next chapter, and by artificial split, I'm talking now, it's completed.

 

As for whether it was "Needed", I don't think it really was, unless they never set a realistic Kickstarter target, for making the entire game.

A common problem with Kickstarter, where it's a time limited all or nothing deal, and Kickstarter wants a fast turnover, so unrealistic targets are set, to ensure startup.

If the Crowdfunding, was adequate, there was no need to release it in episodes, hence it was artificial, or an inadequate target was set, to begin with, and it was used to raise more cash.

 

I like Crowdfunding games, but ones where realistic targets are set for startup, and prefer direct funding, with all my funds going to the project.

This was my first crowdfunded game, and I now only back fully crowdfunded projects, and I prefer to wait, however long it takes, to get the full game.

I've backed Star Citizwn, direct, and prefer that open development method, to the way DC was done.

 

I simply don't like episodic releases, and do think they impose artificial splits on games, introducing a tendancy to create, cliffhanger endings, for each split.

 

As I said I enjoyed the game, in spite of this, but it would have been better without the joins, when the last Epoisode released, which made it a completed (hence I used the word Final) game,


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#6 Artorias

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 09:49

The puzzles in general were disappointing. They weren't so much puzzles to figure out, as they were vague instructions with difficult to find components. A lot of walking around spinning the mouse around looking for anything to interact with, very little actual thinking and solving puzzles. I don't think anyone wants a return of the rubber ducky puzzle from TLJ, but many times the puzzles in Dreamfall Chapters were frustrating rather than interesting and challenging. I think the broken sword games do a really great job with puzzles. Devs could look at those games for inspiration.

 

The episodic nature too was not ideal.

 

I get that there are kickstarter limitations and stuff, and what's done is done, but these areas where the devs could improve in the future.



#7 MisterMetropolis

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 18:49

I don't think anyone wants a return of the rubber ducky puzzle from TLJ to return

 

I do! I love obtuse puzzles.


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"But even if we don't reach that lofty goal this time around, we hope to some day still be able to tell this story. April's story, all of it. All that remains of it. Because it needs to be told. And you all deserve to hear it. And we would love to share it with you." - RTG, March 1, 2013

 

"Even if we don't get to $2 million, we will still look into ways of making The Longest Journey Home a reality...some day. It's a story we all want to tell, and we won't let it die.- RTG, March 9, 2013


#8 Valiah

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 21:01

Hate is a strong word, but to each their own I guess. 

 

My main issue with the episodic format were how far apart the books were released. I played the first two books as they came out due to sheer excitement, but then decided to wait until they were all released because I couldn't keep the story and my choices fresh in my head with all the time that passed.  

 

Personally I liked the summaries, but that is partially because I only have a few hours a week to spend on gaming so my progress is slow enough that they actually serve as useful reminders of my choices. I like that the summaries included some flavor text hinting at when the consequences might come and the potential scope of the consequences. Being able to link my personal choices to the events that happen in the game is key to making the choices feel meaningful and to help me make that personal connection with the story, and this tool helpes me achieve that.

 

I LOVED being able to see what others have chosen, I find it really interesting. I did appreciate that the stats didn't show when making choice unless you click on the icon to reveal it, in case you find it breaks immersion or you don't want it to affect your choices. 

 

There was far less pixel hunting in DFC than in most previous adventure games I've played (The Longest Journey definitely comes to mind)... Although that is certainly no excuse. I agree that when you're looking at something like a rope the entire object should ideally trigger, but it's a tricky balance. I definitely wouldn't want something to trigger when I'm too far away to use it or not looking directly at it. I like figuring things out on my own, so I really hate it when games make it too easy by drawing your attention to the objects. 

 

I agree that finding the drawings was frustrating, but seeing as I have a toddler of my own I found it perfectly sensible. I do similar treasure hunts at home every day. This morning one shoe was in the drawer where we keep our baking tools and the other was hidden under her drums. I'm sure there were reasons.  :rolleyes:

 

My main critique is that i would have liked to see more varied puzzles. Well, and the implementation of the Kickstarter stretch goals and rewards.... 


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#9 odizzido

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 07:06

They did remove the restarting between the five parts for the final version.

 

As to your puzzle complaints, yeah. I actually looked up a number of them because it was taking too long to find the notes or pictures or whatever. I don't think I'd call those puzzles but scavenger hunts.

 

As to the actual puzzles I tended to find them hard fairly often as well.....not so much because the task was difficult but because I had to figure out which of the 100 different potential solutions the devs decided to use. For example the whole pipe investigation part. First of all figuring out how to get a ball out of the pipe. Can't use my hands okay, so I tried the straight pipe and it just bounced off because it was too small. Alrighty, so I want to put a bunch of straw at the end to cushion the impact so it stays....nope. Can I use that sleeping guys hat? Nope. Maybe a stick so that it rolls up it and out? Nope. I finally gave up went online and found out that there were curved pipes that I didn't see that I had to use...

 

Then finally you get the ball and have to clog up the machine...with a rat...because of course you can't use a tomato or one of 1000 different other things to gunk up the machine. I mean I know he would never send a yam into the machine but geez. It also MUST be alive, can't flatten one with a table or pipe or anything, you have to catch it alive to send it into the machine. WTF? Does kian love to torment rats or something? Talk about making the job far more difficult than it needs to be.

 

And of course I had the exact same problems with the rat catching as I did with getting the ball. Combine the curved pipe with the straight one, put cheese in it so you could turn it to prevent the rat from escaping? Nope. Use some cloth to effectively make a large net? Nope......and on and on. That was the worst example, but it certainly stood out to me.



#10 Sarah_Stark

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 13:35

I really wish that with the 'Final Cut' the pacing had been properly looked at. I'd completed the game before, though still found myself brought to a crawl for things like Saga's pictures, or else having to run about and identify the WPG towers, not to mention then getting the advert to block the view at the precise location (I'd have preferred a way to send the advert to the guard and force him to leave in frustration over having to get it to start up in a manner that I think he'd have found suspicious anyway).

 

I also found myself bored at times, which I didn't feel before. Partly because I know knew what was coming, but also because the running speed is terribly slow, and the locations are arguably too large for the story. Sure, I don't want them to be claustrophobic, but neither do I feel they need to be quite so vast as they are in-game. If the game had side-quests or hidden things to collect, I'd be okay with the scale.

However the size, mixed with the running speed, tends to feel like padding to me - and unnecessary padding at that.

 

I also found Saga more annoying this time around, which I find myself struggling to believe. Knowing how she eventually played into the story, I expected I'd accept her more, but the opposite was true. ​I just don't like how she shoe-horns herself into the narrative when any liking of her is barely earned. We barely know a thing about her (in fact, she seems to barely know a thing about her).

Both parents seemed more interesting, and knowing that Galanth and Madame visit her, without much indication on who they might be also irks. Sure, Galanth is probably a Draic Kin, especially with what Saga says In the epilogue, but it felt like a mystery character (Saga) inserted for no reason - especially given we know there is very unlikely to be another game (and RTG likely knew this during the making of DFC anyway). If there are plans for a sequel, I know I'd rather it focus on April Ryan and TLJH over 'Saga: Living embodiment of the Deus Ex Machina'.

I also found her incredibly aloof, but without getting to know her more, it comes across as arrogant, and makes her feel incredibly one-dimensional. She snaps at the protagonists that have legitimately earned respect from us, and inserts herself into the lives of others 'because it's been written'. I don't even feel that such pre-determinism is wholly compatible with the idea of dreams and the balance, but that's possibly just me.

 

I also wonder why Lux would be in Arcadia when it's made clear there's a multiverse. Wouldn't it be more logical for them to be more centralised within the greater construct, rather than conveniently localised within the story? I guess it's possible Lux dreamed themselves to Arcadia, but that kinda feels cheap and unlikely.

Everything about Lux and the undreaming is centralised to Stark/Arcadia, and we see little-to-no impact on places such as Midgard.

I got the impression Lux is supposed to have dreamed all the multiverses, so I find this an odd omission. If Lux didn't, and only created the twin worlds, then the stakes of the game are much smaller and akin to trying to save a world from an impending meteor.

I also still really don't like how Brian was revealed. I honestly think the game would have been stronger had him being the Prophet had been revealed when the character was fresher in the mind - namely at the end of Dreamfall. Doing that would have allowed the story to explore his motivations, along with Utana's in greater detail throughout Chapters, and spread the story more evenly across its playtime.

 

I don't hate the game or anything like that, but feel there's something missing from the core of it that was there in both TLJ and Dreamfall. Perhaps it's the lack of world-building this time, and where there is any, it's hastily explained (the tube network doesn't explain how they gather the dreams without Eingana or magic) or not remotely (songlines, for example). Maybe it's the hand-waving of lines like 'That's not Reza' or the almost complete lack of TLJ plot within the story. 

I also can't shake the nagging feeling that the reunification happening when it does would almost exclusively benefit humans over all other races. Most of the magicals were brought to the brink of extinction, and it's explained by Saga in the epilogue that countless died when it happened. I want to know what happened to the various races we only saw in TLJ, and those we see again through DF and DFC.

 

I know there are plenty who like the game, and probably many who love it, and that's more than fine. In fact I hope I'm in the minority, but it irks me (even saddens) that I didn't enjoy the game enough to feel satisfied. 


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I could of course be very wrong.


#11 MisterMetropolis

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 20:16

I also wonder why Lux would be in Arcadia when it's made clear there's a multiverse. Wouldn't it be more logical for them to be more centralised within the greater construct, rather than conveniently localised within the story? I guess it's possible Lux dreamed themselves to Arcadia, but that kinda feels cheap and unlikely.

 

I felt like this was because Arcadia was a world purely of magic, unique because the world's original form (Earth) had been split into two dimensions. I assume that this has happened nowhere else in the universe, and so Lux was made a physical manifestation into the world of magic.


"But even if we don't reach that lofty goal this time around, we hope to some day still be able to tell this story. April's story, all of it. All that remains of it. Because it needs to be told. And you all deserve to hear it. And we would love to share it with you." - RTG, March 1, 2013

 

"Even if we don't get to $2 million, we will still look into ways of making The Longest Journey Home a reality...some day. It's a story we all want to tell, and we won't let it die.- RTG, March 9, 2013





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