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#21 Happy Tree

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 01:45

I stopped playing after Book 3 precisely so as not to have that "gap" problem. Well, technically I've played Book 4 but I was so ill at the time I have no memory of it. So we never did get into the HoD, ok. I would go a bit further than saying it feels a bit like we've been beta testers, this game has had qualities of being Early Access in all but name. But I mention that and folks don't like the term, oh well. See a duck-like object for details. I don't call it that to be critical, just to call things as they are. They had no option to do it otherwise.

 

But as for the version gap, well it's true that it can feel weird when things change. I haven't played the new Book 1 yet but I've heard it's been cut right down. I guess we should be grateful that we got to see more than if we'd only bought it after it was finished. Like finding original demos of favourite songs, they might be less polished and not what the artist wanted to have as a final edit. But the hardcore fans love it all the same!

 

I will be extremely disappointed if we never get to see inside the art gallery. I'm sure they have many many assets to put in there if they want, competition or no. I also wonder what the object hunt will turn out like. That can't be cut. We shall see!


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#22 Ringtail

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 02:06

Yeah, I think there are story purposes that Emma's gallery could serve, particularly in helping along one transition. (spoilers in case folks reading this thread haven't played):

 

Spoiler

 

But I think the inside of the House of Dreams is a goner.  My guess is that whatever was planned for there got folded into Zoe's other adventures in Propast.

 

Spoiler


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#23 Happy Tree

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 02:37

He said that on Twitter? Ah rats.



#24 MisterMetropolis

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 02:46

 

I hope I'm not fucking with anyone's hopes and expectations, but that is neither possible nor desirable. It's obvious that DFC was planned as a different beast back in the Kickstarter days. That became apparent only a few weeks after the campaign ended and we first surprisingly heard of choice & consequence as a key mechanic. I'm still weeping for those challenging puzzles and of course for the real instruments in the musical score, but in other respects, particularly concerning game length and the most expansive cast of characters, I think we got more than we bargained for. Yes, Emma's museum was a stretch goal, but then again, the contest that was meant to fill the museum with fan art never happened after the exegetic music contest disaster. And, yes, one of the planned plot points involved Madame Nyx and her illustrious "House of Dreams"... but shoehorn in another puzzle free errand for Zoë just to get it in? That energy is better spent elsewhere.  :mellow:

 

 

But.....But.....

 

Crying-meme-300x214.png

 

 

The House of Dreams I'm not dead set on. Maybe we could just go in and have a short conversation with Madame Nyx but it's fine if we don't. I think just including her building was enough. As for the books, they could be collected in Chapters 3, 5, 6 and 8 and read over in the Enclave in 8 and 9. And it's obvious by now that there's not going to be a fanart contest, probably because of the [ridiculous] backlash the music contest had. But Emma's gallery was also supposed to hold concept art, and that would even work in the canon. Emma could still be having dreams across the Divide as the worlds move closer and closer toward reunification, and some of the art was even said to be April's salvaged from before the Collapse, and we know April had some precognitive drawings. In my opinion, it would make even less sense to include the building for the gallery itself and have it "coming soon" than it would to just implement the inside of it already. I did see that tweet when Book Five came out and I interpreted it as him saying "Emma did not fit in the main story, but that doesn't mean she can't still be talked to as a minor character".

 

I think it would look bad for RTG, and for Kickstarter, to go back on stretch goals, which are pretty much promises, are they not? I had been assuming all these months that that was why it was taking so long - 9 months ultimately between Book Five and The Final Cut. I know they only had four people working on it and the rest of them were concentrating on Draugen and Svalbard, but were they really just touching up the lighting etc. and porting it to consoles this whole time?


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"But even if we don't reach that lofty goal this time around, we hope to some day still be able to tell this story. April's story, all of it. All that remains of it. Because it needs to be told. And you all deserve to hear it. And we would love to share it with you." - RTG, March 1, 2013

 

"Even if we don't get to $2 million, we will still look into ways of making The Longest Journey Home a reality...some day. It's a story we all want to tell, and we won't let it die.- RTG, March 9, 2013


#25 kla622

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 13:33


... the additive changes are what worry me most, to be honest. The balance between interactive and cutscene elements was way off already, particularly in the last two Books. If we're getting another Queenie soliloquy, proper final exchanges with Hanna, Mira, Wit and Bip (all of whom were evidently meant to properly appear [and speak] in the final Book), if we're getting the long awaited glimpse at Bip's parents etc., then things are getting even more crowded in the sit still and watch department. :(

 

Is it reasonable to expect much or any of that though? Don't get me wrong, I'd love if it were to happen, but the way the announcement is worded, I don't really see a hint of new scenes. Everyone is discussing these 'additions', but no additions are mentioned in the post at all, they only talk about 'changes' to the gameplay, and by that I would expect stuff like the in-game map, or other tweaks that were discussed in the recommendations and feedback thread. Previously, RTG made a number of comments that also indicate such changes. But - you guys are probably more aware of all the news, so please fill me in if there's anything -, have there been any comments that make it reasonable to assume that we will be getting any bits of story content? The only thing that comes to my mind is Ragnar's post about the Queenie scene, but that was not very definite either. (There was definitely some talk about cutting or shortening scenes though)

 

I know that RTG like to keep a lid on such things, and there will probably be an element of surprise in the Final Cut. They might avoid mentioning additions in order not to raise our expectations to an irrealistic level. And sure, maybe that Queenie scene will in fact find its way back, along with a few sentences here or there. But the way things look, I personally doubt that we would see any significant new story content.


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#26 bongboy

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 14:35

Shortly after book 5 was released, Ragnar asked us if we'd like for anything to be added to the game, but to keep in mind that new voice recording sessions will not take place. I have no idea what, if anything, RTG has decided to add, but it is a possibility. Here are two of his posts that directly relate to the topic at hand.

Hi all,

 

We've been monitoring this thread continuously and noting down your feedback and suggestions — all of which are Much Appreciated. Now that Book Five is out, we're going to start thinking about the Complete Edition (name TBD).

 

There are already some bits and pieces in the works — Book Two has some really long and often dull stretches that we hope to 'optimise', we're going to make an in-game map and a teleport functionality where you can jump to locations previously visited — but we'd love to hear from you, dear player, about which parts of the game you've struggled with, found slow, found confusing, want to see an upgrade to, now that the journey is complete. This also goes for dialogues and characters: where would you like for us to spend a little more time and effort? Which choices and consequences could be further explored? And is there anything you feel is missing from the journey?

 

There are definite limits to what we can do, of course, both in terms of time and budget, so keep that in mind (we can't do a whole new location, for example) — and we're not changing the story; regardless of what you think of it, this is the story we planned to tell — but we can certainly raise the quality where it's most needed, and we can clarify things, improve the pacing and the polish.

 

Suggesting something doesn't mean it will end up in the game, of course. There are budgetary restrictions, and we may not agree: we won't compromise our vision for this game! Also, try to keep it constructive. We know there are things some of you don't like, and we obviously can't please everyone — please don't use this thread to launch an attack on the developers or to just complain about the game, without offering some actual constructive feedback. That will just derail things, and the developers will stop reading your input.

 

Also — this thread will have spoilers for Book Five, obviously, so if you haven't yet played the end, do not participate in the discussion!

 

Thanks, and looking forward to hearing your thoughts, comments, feedback and ideas

Here's a link to the original post.

Gilmore did play a bigger part in the story; Queenie, too — along with WATI's founder (there is a reference to that story at the very, very end). We simply didn't have time to address everything in episodes four and five, even though dialogue was written and recorded. We wanted to focus on the heart and soul of the story: the journeys of Zoë, April, Kian.

Here's a link to the original post.



#27 MilDal

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 14:56

It's nice to have news from RTG ! :)

 

But anyone knows if french voices are still planned ? It's not really a problem for me because i understand english, but the french voices for the longest journey and dreamfall were very good and I have to say that it would be great to have them in the final version... But they only talked about the german version so...?


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#28 MisterMetropolis

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 19:01

Well "we can't do a whole new location" and not doing any more voice recording is even more concerning! Not even a little gallery they promised years ago?


"But even if we don't reach that lofty goal this time around, we hope to some day still be able to tell this story. April's story, all of it. All that remains of it. Because it needs to be told. And you all deserve to hear it. And we would love to share it with you." - RTG, March 1, 2013

 

"Even if we don't get to $2 million, we will still look into ways of making The Longest Journey Home a reality...some day. It's a story we all want to tell, and we won't let it die.- RTG, March 9, 2013


#29 willow

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 19:05

Why no info with French voice version?

Last patch announce german voice but where are french voice promised in kickstarter?

Is it cancelled?

Thanks


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#30 Happy Tree

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 19:40

In the absence of information people speculate. I must admit I had just assumed that all this time RTG was so hard at work because they of course had to put in all the things from the stretch goals and KS tiers that they said they would put in when they were asking for money. If they end up announcing they didn't do some bits and never even said all this time, well, that will be unfortunate. Unthinkable, really.


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#31 Vainamoinen

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 20:56

I think it would look bad for RTG, and for Kickstarter, to go back on stretch goals, which are pretty much promises, are they not?


You're of course right, but I think we'll be able to mostly agree where a Kickstarter promise was broken out of a design decision that was made after the KS had ended, which in my opinion is the acceptable "broken promise". Add-ons like extra costumes and hairdos, the short stories, map and the recapp™ don't influence gameplay in the least – I absolutely think RTG is bound to these promises! But anything story related should remain at the sole discretion of the storyteller even IF it was advertised otherwise four years ago. And the museum was in a way threatened by proceedings that are out of RTG's hands, as you yourself have alluded to.
 

Is it reasonable to expect much or any of that though? Don't get me wrong, I'd love if it were to happen, but the way the announcement is worded, I don't really see a hint of new scenes.


The thing that prohibits new scenes is called "voice acting", I think. If they get Charlotte Ritchie back into the studio for a few new hotspots, that could possibly be the max of it. However, we already know that lines were recorded for an expanded Queenie ending. Which bodes well for at least this one additional scene. More lines could already have been recorded for Book 5 that we are unaware of. So, yeah, no expectations here, but it's reasonable to assume that RTG may yet surprise us. :)
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Hey Ubisoft, you can keep your "seamless vast online GTA in space" to yourselves. Signed, one of the greatest Beyond Good & Evil fans alive.


#32 kla622

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 21:51

Well, Ragnar's comment quoted by bongboy:
 

This also goes for dialogues and characters: where would you like for us to spend a little more time and effort? Which choices and consequences could be further explored? And is there anything you feel is missing from the journey?

 

 

provides some ground for optimism, at least. :) I hope when Ragnar said there was "no time" to address everything in Books 4&5 - even plotpoints that had recorded footage - means that they actually did not have time for development back then, and not that there is simply 'no room' in the Books for more scenes. Although honestly, it seems a bit difficult to seamlessly include that Queenie scene in the ending, but I guess there would be room for it after the hospital scene and before the flashforwards. If Zoe visited Emma in her gallery to bring her some news about April after all is said and done, and that's where she'd bump into Queenie, that would be a perfect moment. :) But let's not get into wishful thinking.

 

If I recall correctly, Ragnar previously entertained the concept of incuding 'deleted scenes' in the game, maybe that could be a feature used for these recorded dialogues that didn't make it into the main story, even if they don't animate them. And does anybody know if the director's audio commentary is still a thing?


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#33 MisterMetropolis

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 22:13

AFAIK commentary should still be in. Maybe the Gallery will be this game's version of the Book of Secrets, only visitable after completing the game and it could have all the deleted scenes in it as well. That would be cool.


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"But even if we don't reach that lofty goal this time around, we hope to some day still be able to tell this story. April's story, all of it. All that remains of it. Because it needs to be told. And you all deserve to hear it. And we would love to share it with you." - RTG, March 1, 2013

 

"Even if we don't get to $2 million, we will still look into ways of making The Longest Journey Home a reality...some day. It's a story we all want to tell, and we won't let it die.- RTG, March 9, 2013


#34 Insulin

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 12:21

I am not joking....when publishers get involved things can go downhill fast.

 

Be careful, you are threatening with a paradigm shift. :D When we see the new art for console versions, we clearly see influence from publishers. The word "gameplay" could imply something like improved combat. In several scenes you must escape a certain situation from not happening. It is combat at a level already, because you must repeat actions until success. Adding more actions in these situations would still be combat against an opponent but just improved. This would not be sacrilegious in my opinion.



#35 Vainamoinen

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 12:32

When we see the new art for console versions, we clearly see influence from publishers.


I don't think there's any connection there. The only thing that struck us as new in the artwork was a 'new' character that we think is a redesign of Hanna; and some fans have been clamoring for that redesign for more than a year now. :P
 

If possible, tweak Hanna's character model. She looks like a copy of Abby's, and she's in no way on par with e.g. the brilliant 14 year old Saga in Book 4. Face and hair could be a focus.


Hey Ubisoft, you can keep your "seamless vast online GTA in space" to yourselves. Signed, one of the greatest Beyond Good & Evil fans alive.


#36 te36

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 15:01

Wrt. physical media: Are there no "CD on demand" services that RTG could use to sell physical versions of the game in countries where there can not find a traditional publisher ?

 

I am also still a fan of posters. Some nice A1 size DFC scenery poster would be a great buy.

 

And full color coated 3D action figures, eg: from shapeways. Especially because shapeways has built in sales options, so easy to explore/make-money-from for RTG.

 

And it would be great if the 3D patch could be included on the media, even if unofficial.

 

I know... wishfull thinking...



#37 magic88889

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 22:31

Without a publisher, the logistics and huge upfront costs of doing any kind of physical release are insane.  Even if they could find distributors, they would still have to find a publisher that will fund the production, which most likely won't happen (although I suppose it did in Germany, for some reason).

As for a CD on demand service.  I know they exist for console games, but do they for PC games?  Even AAA companies pretty much only release on digital now. 



#38 LootHunter

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 15:47

Not sure if you're joking or not...?

 

I don't think there's any reason to assume that. O.o They've been saying they were going to make updates to the gameplay since they said they were going back and making changes. They already overhauled the gameplay in Book One and combat had nothing to do with it.

I think he just remembered the horrible combat from first Dreamfall. Actually, if RTG managed to make it better I wouldn't mind to kick some Mr.London's goons' asses with Zoe (do you remember that she had 'black belt' in previous game?). However, what I reallly would like to see - some 'programming' puzzles at Pandemonium and to shut Dream Engine.


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#39 DiskJunky

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 20:59

Sweet! I'd been wondering about the silence but it seems like it's been a rough year for RTG but things seem to be in hand :D


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#40 thelj

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 21:22

So, what happened to the digital rewards? What's stopping RTG from releasing them like...now maybe? The short stories in particular were supposed to be released with book 1, then they were supposed to be released between book 3 and book 4, and now it's already 20-and fucking-17 and still nothing.


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