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Now that it's done: the Good, the Bad


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#61 Vanya-illin

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 17:59

Prophecies are tricky. when I saw the Star Wars prequels I knew how Anakin would turn to the dark side, at some point (SPOILEEEERS! :D)... so some of the "magic" was already gone.
The less of you know the better, because when you know too much...everything becomes mechanical, artificial, pointless.

That's one reason. In Wen Spencer's novel Tinker, the Seer won't tell Tinker exactly how to defeat the invasion because, among other things, the enemy has a mind-reader.


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#62 janos666

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 00:12

Excuse me, but I don't see the point in argueing terminology.

 

My objection was to

Young April meets old Saga in The Longest Journey and in Dreamfall Chapters (in fact it's the very same event shown in both games). So whatever explanation is it was the same from the first game. Dreamfall Chapters havn't add any plotholes.

I saw it as such because as much as I could remember and how I understood things, only DF: Chapter 1 made it absolutely clear that Saga was born after April died (multiple things seem to confirm this timeline being roughly linear, including how Saga ages and gets involved with Zoe's story... those points draw a straight line...). Before that, it was something I remembered theorizing about but not knowing for a fact (it was a long time ago but I think I theorized - after playing the first game - "the old woman" was April, after going through a lot which possibly changed/reshaped her in many ways). May be I am wrong about that though.



#63 the red of the kin

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 08:10

I saw it as such because as much as I could remember and how I understood things, only DF: Chapter 1 made it absolutely clear that Saga was born after April died (multiple things seem to confirm this timeline being roughly linear, including how Saga ages and gets involved with Zoe's story... those points draw a straight line...). 

 

It is a straight line in the story we follow, but it wouldn't add up if we looked at it in terms of years passing. Saga needs years to grow up and become the adult that get's involved in Zoe's story. thankfully the HoAW is outside time and space so Saga ha sall the time in the... aether... ;-)

 

Before that, it was something I remembered theorizing about but not knowing for a fact (it was a long time ago but I think I theorized - after playing the first game - "the old woman" was April, after going through a lot which possibly changed/reshaped her in many ways). May be I am wrong about that though.

 

I like to think that this is sort of a parallel universe, where Saga is at April's place. But in truth in another universe April is there with Crow ^_^

Hopeless romantic here ;-)


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#64 janos666

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 14:11

It is a straight line in the story we follow, but it wouldn't add up if we looked at it in terms of years passing. Saga needs years to grow up and become the adult that get's involved in Zoe's story. thankfully the HoAW is outside time and space so Saga ha sall the time in the... aether... ;-)

I admit "straight line" was a very poor choice of words. I should have went with "a monotonously rising curve" or "curves constrained by straight tangents" (the tangents you get from connecting the known dots with straight lines, then you are free to draw a random scribble in between, just never cross the tangents or the existing parts of the scribble...).

 

I never had a problem with time passing at a uniquely fluctuating rate for Saga (especially while hopping in/out of the HoAW which could be theorized to act like the <black hole proximity> or the <near light speed movement> kind of "time banding" <time bubble> compared to other places in the broader existence) than it is for (say) Kian (let's pick him as a temporary relative reference point), although I initially assumed she is simply growing up faster than a human living on Stark/Earth would (after all, she was a human + "midguardian" hybrid, isolated from the native worlds of both species, so she probably had a unique biology with additional distortions caused by the isolated and "unnatural" environment and lifestyle).

 

But everything about the story of young Saga hinted that HoAW has a sort of monotonously up-counting (and mostly /if not strictly/ linear) "internal clock" which only allows for very limited means of time travel/banding, if any (even if it's "unbound" from the outside world in every ways, including time). Just consider how Magnus was desperately waiting for Etta to finally come home and insisted on somebody waiting for her in the HoAW at all times (minding the "internal clock" here). He did not seem to try traveling back to a point where he could alter the circumstances of her disappearance (asking/forcing her to remain in the HoAW, or to visit some other place ---possibly with an extra companion/bodyguard/superviser--- instead of following her original travel plans). Although, I always had a strange feeling Etta might disappeared on her own will (meaning, she simply left Magnus, ending their relationship, possibly on her own terms without open and direct negotiations on the matter with Magnus) and/or Magnus developed some kind of mental issues (with the limited information at hand, this could be either the cause, or the effect of a messy breakup, although the simple disappearance could be enough on it's own, especially if we consider the isolated life in the HoAW might also took it's toll on his mind to begin with -> Etta literally meant roughly half of the world for him).

 

I still think old Saga meeting young April is still a unique incident, not even implied as a possibility earlier. Again: old Magnus didn't meet young Magnus or young Etta in the HoAW, regardless how Magnus seemed desperate enough to ignore the possible risks of causing a paradox with possible detrimental effects. And even if it was a limitation of Magnus not being able to use the HoAW as a "two-way time machine", he clearly had resourceful friends like that "Uncle Galath", or could probably contact someone from Etta's family/species to help with this problem (if a solution seemed possible, especially if the risk didn't seem infinitely great).

 

* this reminds me: I liked playing with the thought of Uncle Galath being Brian Westhouse, possibly being responsible for the disappearance of Etta and/or the deepening of Magnus's depression in order to gain control of Saga as a possible tool (for later use in some "evil grand scheme").



#65 Indrid Cold

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 16:14

This is how I visualise time in DFC:

DFC%20Time.jpg?raw=1

 

Note that "Stark/Arcadia time" and "HoAW" time aren't meant to be related, but entirely independent. You can only go from one to the other through some kind of portal, whether that's a songline or something else. I would guess that all 3 "meetings" described above happened through songlines but it's never said explicitly.


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#66 LootHunter

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 07:01

Now, as I’m replaying DFC and have some spare time, I think I’ll participate in this thread properly. Write what is good and bad in the game.

 

Good things:

 

1. The Story. It’s good and despite some claims on forums it fits well into the spirit and logic of previous TLJ games. In fact according to Cortez the whole Divide thing was made because Draic Kin feared that humans will do great harm with combined powers of magic and technology. And if my assumption that it were azadi and their religion that pushed Westhouse to use Undreaming to wipe magicals (and not the other way around) — it just shows, what exactly Cortez ment.

 

2. Characters. The Longest Journey and Dreamfall: The Longest Journey were famous partly due to the deep and interesting characters (especially TLJ). And Chapters retains the level of quality cast, with both old and new characters greatly fit into narrative and also being interesting personalities. Though a few characters are somewhat underused.

 

3. Choices. While there are a lot of games with story choice mechanics, what makes DFC to stand out is that choices are used to define characters. And I not only mean that we can define characters with our choice, but choice acts are themselves make us better understand characters. Like kil/not kill the warden at the beginning of the Kian’s path. Whatever we choose, the doubt itself provides insight to Kian’s shaken beliefs.

 

4. Aesthetics and atmosphere. Visuals, sound, music – everything is great.

 

5. Puzzles. There are indeed some interesting and unconventional puzzles, that make player to think. Like the puzzle with the wardrobe, with ad-bot and the one where Kian must identify the guy from anti-magicals meeting.

 

Bad things:

 

1. Puzzles. Three cool unconventional puzzles and that’s all? Seriously?! For the game with 13 chapters, 5 books, made in more that a year, I expected more. And all other puzzles are just take this thing and use it on some other thing across the map. There are even no minigames, like in first Dreamfall.

 

2. Consequence. While I like, how choices allow look deeper into the characters, their consequences are usually negligible. And worst of all there are some actions that don’t have consequences that should be. Like seeing Jakai acting suspicious. Correct me if I’m wrong, but even if you report about it, that changes nothing. I mean there is one action – betrayal, and another action – warning against it, the link is obvious, but it’s not there.

 

3. Gay characters. Kian is gay. Well, I’m ok with that. One of protagonists appears to prefer men to women, so what? But Likho is also gay. And Hanna. And her girlfriend. And (if I understood correctly) Enu is bisexual. Don’t you think it’s too much? I mean there are less unconventional interesting puzzles in DFC than gay characters! This brings complaining about “modern games are not about gameplay” on a totally different level.

 

3.1 Also I don’t like Kian’s conversation with Crow on the topic. It sounds unnatural. With azadi (according to conversation with Likho) not disapproving homosexuality (in fact they encourage it) there shouldn’t even be a label for gay in the first place. And in fact talk with Crow could be great place to show Kian’s point of view on sexuality (why he doesn’t like women and likes men), but instead just “I am gay” - looks more like SJW propaganda.

 

4. Many things remain unexplained. Yes, I understand that some of secrets were preserved for TLJ Home. And in fact Ragnar himself said that some discrepancies are deliberate and will be explained later. But still, devs could be more elaborate about Westhouse motivation or Chang’s project history.

 

Of cause all of the above is IMHO.


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#67 Ringtail

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Posted 11 December 2016 - 00:05

 

 

3. Gay characters. Kian is gay. Well, I’m ok with that. One of protagonists appears to prefer men to women, so what? But Likho is also gay. And Hanna. And her girlfriend. And (if I understood correctly) Enu is bisexual. Don’t you think it’s too much? 

 

 

 

No.

 

Four confirmed gay characters and one potential (though not confirmed) bisexual character in a cast of what, thirty speaking parts?  It's not too much.


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#68 khh

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 22:45

I have removed the entire discussion from this point. It got off on the wrong foot right away after this, and it never got back on track. There were posts in here that I would have liked to keep, but they would necessarily be out of context and either not make sense or even give the wrong impression. I will send a few PMs. If your post has been removed, but you don't get a PM then your post wasn't removed for being problematic, it was just a direct reply to something that was removed or it didn't make sense without context.

 

I'm not going forbid the topic from being discussed. If we can't have a good debate about gay characters here, where are we going to have it. But if the topic is raised again I expect everyone to be on their best behaviour.

 

And a final reminder: If you think something is totally over the line then report it, and try not to make things worse. I'm not saying things should be ignored, I'm saying be mindful in how you engage.


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April Ryan is my friend,
Every sorrow she can mend.
When I visit her dark realm,
Does it simply overwhelm.





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