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#41 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 01:22

Erika's Unpopular Opinion Time!

 

I don't mind playing online. My computer is literally always connected to the internet, unless  it's off, my internet goes out, I'm resetting something, or my cat decides to attack the wifi card hard switch on my laptop. Even if my laptop is off, odds are good my tablet and/or phone are connected to the internet. I'm just always connected. It's an addiction, I'll admit it. 

 

So, for me, I honestly don't even notice if my game is connected to the internet or not. The exception being if it's a game with an obvious online component like an MMO. Personally, I just really don't care one way or the other if a game is connected or not. I'm clearly not one of those people who has every privacy blocker and whatever else installed on my computer. I know there are risks to that. I used to be that person, but I decided I just didn't care enough after a point. I'd rather expend that energy campaigning to fix some of the issues with online privacy and the like, to be honest. That and again...there are just other things that I care about way more. And maybe that makes me part of the problem or a hypocrite or whatever. I don't know. 

 

Either way I think that there are multiple issues here that are getting rolled up into one big issue when that really shouldn't be the case. 

 

Based on what I understand from talking to people, researching, etc, the issue isn't so much that games have multiplayer or that games have online / social capabilities. It's when those things get taken too far. And sure, there are people who absolutely don't want those things in their games and there are people who absolutely will only buy games with those things, but more people tend to cluster somewhere in the middle. 

 

Diablo III is a great example. The issue wasn't so much that there was online capabilites and multiplayer. The multiplayer from Diablo II was wildly popular and there is a core dedicated fanbase that wants that. And then plenty of other people who don't. The big issue came when Blizzard assumed that because some people really wanted that thing, that meant everyone wanted the thing, and that thing should then be forced into the game. Because then that can be used as DRM and so on and so on. 

 

In regards to Chapters, this Social / Online capability is optional. If you don't want it, turn it off. I'm sorry if this comes off as bitchy, but the assumption that everyone doesn't want this in the game and that it should be default set to off or otherwise relegated to the corner based on your personal views and preferences is annoying me. Because I want it in my game. I'm looking forward to it. Whether or not the default should be on or off is arguable, I guess, but if RTG is putting a bunch of effort into the feature and really wants it in the game and is proud of it, then why the hell not have it be part of the default game? I'm not saying they should hide turning it off. Maybe have it be a question during set up or have it be obvious on the main menu or something. I'm not encouraging sneakiness or anything. Quite the opposite. I totally respect everyone's right to engage or not engage a feature that they feel may or may not diminish their game experience.

 

But it's optional. So if you don't want it, turn it off. That's all there is to it. I don't think it's fair to take something away from people who want it just because you have a problem with it and having options isn't a good enough solution. You know?

 

For me, all I really play are single player games. But so many of my friends play multiplayer games and I'm so SO jealous. I'm just bad at basically every multiplayer game ever invented I get very little joy of of them. So for me, being able to see what my friends are playing or see how far they've gotten in a game or with Chapters see if they've made certain choices even sounds like fun. I look forward to getting that message from someone like "Oh my god, I just got to X part, I can't believe it! I see you got there, too! What do you think? You made Y choice, I made Z choice. What happened for you? What do you think will happen?" Commence fan squeeing. I love games and I so rarely get to share the games I love with people that this sounds really cool to me. 

 

But I totally get that some people want to game in solitude. They don't want social aspects. For whatever reason. Maybe it's a privacy issue, maybe it's a "This is me time and I don't want anyone involved." Whatever. That's totally cool and that's your right. So I'm not going to campaign for them to force you to take advantage of a feature you don't want. 

 

But don't whine at me and tell me they should take out a feature that I want just because it existing in the game, even shut off, bothers you. 

 

I don't think every game should have a multiplayer. I don't think every game should have social aspects or whatever. I don't think we should shoehorn these things into games. But if they're optional and they make sense and they're not forced then what's the problem? Clearly whether or not a mechanic makes sense or whether or not it feels forced is totally a matter of opinion, but I feel like there's a lot of room to play with these ideas and integrate these things in ways that get it right. The number one way in which companies repeatedly get it wrong is by forcing them on people. Based on everything we've been told. Chapters isn't forcing anything on anyone. So I just really can't wrap my mind around why it's still a problem. 

 

But again. These are my opinions. I respect everyone's right to disagree and to stand on their own principles. 


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#42 Ragnar

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 03:05

Ragnar said that most players when asked say they'd play the game online - I'd love to meet these people 'cos they certainly aren't around here :P

 

No matter how awesome you guys are — and you are; this community is nicer, friendlier and more diverse than most gaming communities — you are not necessarily representative of the bigger world of gamers out there.

 

Actually, let me rephrase that:

 

You are definitely not representative of the world out there! And that's totally fine, we like it like that. But most people — gamers, even gamers who prefer story-driven, single-player games — are online when they're on their computers. Engaged with social media, browsing openly rather than privately, and connected inside their games. I'm not saying all of these people prefer to play games online (they certainly do not) but they don't really mind that their games are connected, and they see the addition of our social features as a plus rather than a minus. They're curious to see what others have decided, and they don't mind sharing their decisions. I don't know how many of these players will want to connect their Facebook and/or Steam accounts — time will tell, maybe it's a minority and that's okay — but most of the players we have spoken to outside this community, and most of the people working in the game industry that we've chatted with, feel it's an interesting and potentially engaging game mechanic.

 

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with NOT wanting to connect or to share your story with the world. It's perfectly fine; we made it optional for a reason. But there are actually more people out there who would like to try this out than there are on this forum.

 

As a player, I would DEFINITELY want to use this. I'm really curious to see how others play the game, and how the story is shaped by decisions. It's the theme of the story, and it's central to our design. As a writer and designer, this is something I've never been able to do before, and I know we'll learn a lot from it; both positive and negative things. Which is great! Learning is great. And next time, we'll do even better.


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#43 Ragnar

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 03:29

That's the first I've heard of it anyway. Any time I physically see people playing they play by themselves. Likewise, when I'm talking about games to someone, the invariably say that they prefer offline too. I haven't (honestly!) met anyone who likes playing online

 

Considering which PC games are top sellers these days, that's really odd. Most PC players I know, worldwide, play MOSTLY online games: LoL, Dota, DayZ, Wildstar — and so on. These are some of the biggest titles out there right now. If you haven't met anyone who likes playing online, you're in a very, very select club! :)

 

Sure, that's a different audience from players who might be into Chapters, though there is (I sincerely hope) some crossover. Everyone enjoys a bit of variety. Fact is, a huge majority of PC gamers are perfectly comfortable playing online, and are usually connected when they play. Personally, even though I'm not a huge multiplayer fan, I'm always online, and I never have any reason or incentive to disconnect. Unless I'm somewhere without an internet connection. Which is very rare.


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#44 Ragnar

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 03:31

Erika's Unpopular Opinion Time!

 

<snip>

 

But again. These are my opinions. I respect everyone's right to disagree and to stand on their own principles. 

 

Well said.

 

And I don't see how this would be an unpopular opinion. Because it's very representative of how a lot of people feel. And respectful to those who may disagree.

 

Thanks!


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#45 magic88889

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 03:55

My only issue with being online, is when I HAVE to be online.  I sucks that I can't take the game on a trip where I don't always have a good connection (or any connection at all).  THAT's what get's me mad.  But having an online component is not a big deal to me.  I don't really care one way or another.

 

Although I will say that it is sometimes interesting to see what others have done.


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#46 Valiah

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 08:56

That's the first I've heard of it anyway. Any time I physically see people playing they play by themselves. Likewise, when I'm talking about games to someone, the invariably say that they prefer offline too. I haven't (honestly!) met anyone who likes playing online

Why hello there, pleased to meet you. You may call me Valiah. I love single player adventure games and RPGs, and I like being online. Even when I play games that are offline, I will go online to share my experience with others. I've also found that most single player games have forums where people go to share their experiences and ask each other about the choices made in game. Loads of people. Online. Amazing.

 

I really don't see a problem with it. In fact, I have no problem seeing how a series can benefit from collecting this information. Tracking the choices made by players can give the developers great information that can be used to improve on how the story is told in the next installment. Maybe the players don't relate to a character as much as the devs would have liked, maybe the consequences of certain choices are to vague, maybe one side was under represented... 

 

It will be interesting to see how the percentages change over time. In the beginning I would assume people would go based on their own judgement of the situation, but I would assume that as guides start coming out the percentages will be affected by people picking based on their desired outcome instead. 


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WARNING: This post may contain opinions, and they might not be yours


#47 Vainamoinen

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 10:09

I'm not saying they should hide turning it off. Maybe have it be a question during set up or have it be obvious on the main menu or something.

 

That would be totally great.

 

Yet it's obvious: I have never seen a game doing that yet. Not one. Which, in my view of the situation, signals that game designers either just assume that not many would want to turn that "feature" off or, worst case scenario, are just plain afraid that too many players would. After the last decade, I'm pretty sure that players are used to that stuff by now, but whether they really WANT it or not is a question that can't be answered until there is a prominent choice for those players to make.

 

And maybe that makes me part of the problem or a hypocrite or whatever.


Not a hypocrite, no. You're completely within your rights to always stay connected and to not mind that much about information sent or received from those devices. And what's more to it, you have a good reason for that in this special case as you totally trust the company that collects and shares data from your game. You're only asked to be aware of these issues and accept concerns that – particularly with 1984 being now – MUST be out there. Not everyone can make a huge fuzz over privacy concerns. Yes, should I ever get an Android device, one of the first things I'll install is DCentral1. That's me. I don't force anyone to do the same.

But I do think that these concerns will crop up more in a diverse, well-read and highly interested community such as this one.

Even if gamers usually are in the "don't much care" group, I would expect the "That's-importants" to gather right here. And that is yet another compliment to the community – and to Ragnar & Cie. as well. Telltale can feed a lot to their now primarily teenage community; Electronic Arts can feed just anything to their customer base; RTG_can_not. In many many ways, elite standards are demanded from the comparatively low budget Chapters game; that's why every jump on any bandwagon will elicit an outcry from the community. And that's why privacy, connectivity and DRM concerns will be discussed in connection with gathered player statistics, even though this might be more on the outer rim of the whole problem complex.


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Hey Ubisoft, you can keep your "seamless vast online GTA in space" to yourselves. Signed, one of the greatest Beyond Good & Evil fans alive.


#48 wandrew

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 10:16

That would be totally great.

 

Yet it's obvious: I have never seen a game doing that yet. 

 

Plenty of single player games have optional login fields on their title screen. Or did you mean something else?



#49 Vainamoinen

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 10:47

Plenty of single player games have optional login fields on their title screen. Or did you mean something else?

 

There might be some - I certainly haven't played them all. I mean, hey, no Steam and all. ;)

 

But, yes indeed, I think I have never seen a game that allows you to turn off all online functionalities during installation; and I have never seen a game that features a clear, prominent and unmistakable OFF button in the main menu already.


Hey Ubisoft, you can keep your "seamless vast online GTA in space" to yourselves. Signed, one of the greatest Beyond Good & Evil fans alive.


#50 wandrew

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 11:03

As a shameless AAA game player, Mass Effect 3, Dragon Age and Assassin's Creed spring to mind. They sure as hell want you to log in, but it's an opt in option (if I'm allowed to repeat those letter so many times in a row).


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#51 DiskJunky

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 11:48

Thank you for your responses Ragnar, agirlnamedbob and Valiah. I hope I didn't come across as too cantankerous about the whole online issue. It was more of a rant on the online aspect of games in general when I generally prefer to play the games by myself. Am I unusual? It would seem so but these are just my own opinions and experiences and I genuinely don't expect anyone to agree with me, yet alone everyone. I'm coloured by my experiences, as are we all :)

 

As far as RTG go, let me restate what I said in a previous post;

 

 

Anyhoo, as for DFC as it is now based on the videos - I've no issue with. Data collected seems minimal and it comes with the option to turn it off. That makes me happy :)

 

I have absolutely no issue with RTG's current implementation. I hope my opinions didn't come across as a complaint or critique of RTG - it was not intended as such!


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#52 Vainamoinen

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 12:03

As a shameless AAA game player, Mass Effect 3, Dragon Age and Assassin's Creed spring to mind. They sure as hell want you to log in, but it's an opt in option (if I'm allowed to repeat those letter so many times in a row).

 

SIDENOTE: I played Mass Effect 3 when it came out. Origin was fresh and new by then. Even finding the offline mode was a quest of its own. And of course Origin malfunctioned when I installed DLC - demanding online activation every time I tried to load a game. And of course, if a connection is found, data will be sent regardless of offline mode. So that's totally out of the question as "the right way", I have deinstalled Origin in the meantime and will never install it again. Dragon Age was pre Origin. The game wanted you to go online for day one DLC and of course had no button to deactivate online stuff altogether. Every time I fired up the game, it ALWAYS checked for an available connection, wasted time trying to find it, then proceeded to tell me that something is wrong because it couldn't find one... yes of course I could play the game afterwards, but ...that's certainly not the kind of "off button" I was after here. As for Assassin's Creed, I think my GOG version thankfully doesn't have any online stuff at all; then again, I only spent half an hour with the game, total, before I declared its mechanics plain wanting. ;)


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Hey Ubisoft, you can keep your "seamless vast online GTA in space" to yourselves. Signed, one of the greatest Beyond Good & Evil fans alive.


#53 Happy Tree

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 15:30

Pull out the internet cable. Does the game work? If yes, it was totally optional. If not then it wasn't. That is the bar.



#54 Jito463

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 15:32

Every time I fired up the game, it ALWAYS checked for an available connection, wasted time trying to find it, then proceeded to tell me that something is wrong because it couldn't find one... yes of course I could play the game afterwards, but ...that's certainly not the kind of "off button" I was after here.

 

I have the same problem with Thief (2014).  I don't play it much, because - quite frankly - it's not a very good Thief game (and rather middling as a game in general), but when I do play it, I have to click out of the connection box at the main menu.  No option to turn it off, no option to disable the online connection functionality.  It's blocked in my firewall, so it's not going to communicate anywhere without my permission, but the popup itself is annoying as all get out.



#55 Lee-m

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 15:44

As far as DFC goes, the online stuff doesn't bother me at all, from what Ragnar has told us so far I don't view it as DRM, and seems like the social stuff will add something extra to what is a fairly simplistic genre by today's standards.

I haven't really been affected in a negative way until recently when watch dogs was unplayable at launch due to crappy u(don't)play predictably dieing under the weight of traffic.

I am more disturbed about what I have read recently regarding Origin ( http://wccftech.com/...-investigation/ ). I begrudgingly have it installed...because... well EA have so many of the AAA games.

#56 Edreamer Jamil

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 17:06

There's an article in Today's Guardian (UK) concerning elements of this topic; although I think we've already brought the conversation further along here


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#57 wandrew

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 22:07

Us: better than The Guardian™.


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#58 khh

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 12:32

Well what to expect. After all, they're not the real Guardian.
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#59 thelj

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 21:55

Ok,all this talk about internet connection got me confused (and worried).When all 5 books are out,will i be able to copy them in one disk and then use the disk to install the game and play at my leisure without being connected?



#60 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 22:01

I'm not sure why you would need to copy them onto a disk, or what that has to do with the issue exactly, but the game doesn't NEED to connect to the internet. So I don't see why you would have any problems. 

 

RTG is just integrating a mechanic so that if people WANT to play with the game connected to the internet, then they have the option to do so. This will allow them to see statistics for the choices made in the game. "Like 75% of people chose A, 25% of people chose B." And if you have the game on Steam or want to connect with Facebook, then you can also see what your friends who play the game chose, assuming they have this social feature enabled. 

 

But this is completely optional, so it can be turned off. You don't have to play the game through Steam. You don't have to connect with Facebook. And the game will function just fine if not connected to the internet. At least based on everything we've been told thus far. 


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