84 replies to this topic

[DiskJunky]

I was just reading the latest kickstarter post (https://www.kickstar..._eid=260572ed91) which has a link to the required and recommended system configuration on the Steam page.

 

I was curious as to the reason for the internet connection? I have a vague memory that there is intended to be some facebook/social media tie in - would I be correctly in guessing that this is the reason?

[Lee-m]

recommended so you can play it with the social option. Which is optional, which is why its just under recommended.

Ragnar replies to my question about it here: http://redthreadgame...-ragnar/page-32

[DiskJunky]

recommended so you can play it with the social option. Which is optional, which is why its just under recommended.

Ragnar replies to my question about it here: http://redthreadgame...-ragnar/page-32

Neatly answered, thank you

[Teller]

Yeah, I'm thinking on my first and/or second playthrough I'll toggle it off.  I don't want to be influenced by other's opinions. Then after that I'll turn it on to see what others did.  Maybe just go through save games to the ones I thought were interesting.  I'm not huge on statistics but it is interesting to watch humans and society decision making.

[DiskJunky]

I think I'll toggle it off on my first playthough. Spoilers and all that (yes, I'd consider any extra information a spoiler). Still haven't even seen the blooper reels for that reason

[Valiah]

Knowing myself I will probably have it toggled off for the first playthrough... until I reach a particularly difficult decision. Then I'll toggle it on, see what others have selected, debate with myself for about 10 minutes, before ultimately just going with my initial gut feeling. 

[Vainamoinen]

When I play, I'm not online.

So much for the social media option.

[Thandal]

Off.  Definitely.  First playthrough, second playthrough, probably always. 

 

I don't mind discussing the various permutations and variations... But not while I'm playing!   

[Jito463]

Off, off, off, off, off, off, off, off...(are you seeing a trend?).

[agirlnamedbob]

...Honestly, I'll probably leave it on. Even on my first play through. 

 

C-c-c-c-combo breaker!

 

In all seriousness, though, I don't think it'll bother me. I may change my mind once I start paying, but yeah. *shrug* 

 

I could be wrong, but I kind of feel like this is one of those issues where the people who don't like it are going to be the most vocal. Those of us who don't care so much likely either aren't following the conversation or just don't feel like we have anything to add to it. 

 

Not to say that I'm speaking for some sort of silent majority or anything. I don't think that's the case either. I just think you can't really extrapolate much as far as trends from this data set.

[Vainamoinen]

...Honestly, I'll probably leave it on. Even on my first play through.

Hey, if no one else leaves it on, you won't have any statistics to look at.

[agirlnamedbob]

This is true. I was wondering about that myself, to be honest. Especially since I'll in theory be getting "early access." ...And probably playing the game as soon as I get it. I wonder how much data the game will even have at that point and also how much the percentages will swing once it's been running for a while. 

 

I may have to take notes. Or maybe there will be some way to just look at the statistics 

[trentjaspar]

To your point, I wonder if they'll "prime the pump" with in-house testers or any other pre-release playthroughs.  Because yes...the first person to play the game (a 48 hour "early access" person such as yourself) who's hooked up the internet would otherwise see null data...and the second person will see highly skewed data.  "100% of all people killed the orphan puppy on sight."  Really?!

[Vainamoinen]

To your point, I wonder if they'll "prime the pump" with in-house testers or any other pre-release playthroughs.

Yeah, I think that's what Telltale does as a fail-safe mechanism. 
 
The statistics data mechanisms at work here will have to be carefully examined by players in any case. In the case of Telltale, you're never told if and when those statistics data are collected, sent or updated. On the one hand, I don't see universal player statistics working out well any other way. On the other hand, that's an honest to god data privacy violation right there thank you very much.
 
I guess that with Chapters as well, we don't exactly get a warning or even – which would be the only acceptable thing to do actually – a separate button in the menu called "send/retrieve updated choice statistics". Much more likely, the game checks for an internet connection without asking and if it finds one, it sends and retrieves statistics. Worst case scenario here, it even bothers the player with checking for an online connection upon starting the game, wasting precious time until you get your "no connection found" error message and no way to RTG/Valve server contact if you happen to be online at time of play.
 
Chapters will have to be quite aggressive concerning data privacy for the whole statistics thing to work out. At present, the Walking Dead/ Wolf among Us game builds bought at the Telltale Store check for a connection upon starting the game, and episodes are downloaded in game; those bought from Steam update all the time anyway – all probably good times to update the whole statistics apparatus. In comparison, the DRM free Chapters episodes bought at/ retrieved from gog or Humble reportedly/thankfully are separate installers: statistics are not necessarily collected from these gamers (if this does happen without the player's explicit consent, it would be a violation of the idea of "DRM free" in general).
 
It will work out fine for Steam users pretty quickly though – as Valve has never understood and will never understand the concept of privacy anyway.

[khh]

I would be fine with a default on menu item to send anonymous statistics (and I won't turn it off). However I would expect there to be such a choice.

[Lee-m]

One of the main issues here is, how much value do the numbers give you ? I don't have a single real life friend who plays TLJ/Dreamfall games. I have a few people from this forum as friends on steam, but who will most likely have the feature turned off anyway. So its really of no value to me at all, even if I wanted to use it my self.

The 'world' data will get more irreverent as time goes on. When it says 1.2million picked option A, and 1.6 million picked option B....

[trentjaspar]

In comparison, the DRM free Chapters episodes bought at/ retrieved from gog or Humble reportedly/thankfully are separate installers: statistics are not necessarily collected from these gamers (if this does happen without the player's explicit consent, it would be a violation of the idea of "DRM free" in general).

 

I certainly agree that no game should collect statistics without a player's consent, but how is that a violation of "DRM-free?"

It seems that as long as the game doesn't require an internet connection and there's no activation, keys, etc., it remains DRM-free, no?

 

I'm sure you can tell me how I'm wrong. 

 

Are you saying that your interpretation of DRM-free necessarily requires maintaining 100% privacy as well?  In my quick Googling, the definitions of DRM I say didn't say anything about privacy.

[Jito463]

In the case of single-player games that try to access the internet without my consent, that's what I keep a software firewall installed for.  I'm considering moving to one with a smaller footprint, but for now I'm using the free ZoneAlarm.  I always block the game unless it's multi-player, or there's some other legitimate reason for it to have internet access.

[Vainamoinen]

I certainly agree that no game should collect statistics without a player's consent, but how is that a violation of "DRM-free?"

Yeah, I took some liberties with the term, I agree.

The obscured link of course is DRM free = personal freedom & privacy violation = loss of personal freedom.

However, it could also be argued that all game mechanics designed to (1) tie the player to an arbitrary community and (2) necessitate continuous online contact (from statistics to achievements to updates to patches to DLC to episodic releases to multiplayer in singleplayer games) are in fact highly effective copy protection mechanisms, which could well fall into the DRM definition tomorrow.

[agirlnamedbob]

In the case of single-player games that try to access the internet without my consent, that's what I keep a software firewall installed for.  I'm considering moving to one with a smaller footprint, but for now I'm using the free ZoneAlarm.  I always block the game unless it's multi-player, or there's some other legitimate reason for it to have internet access.

 

That's your right. Though, at least with DFC, since we know that the social options are toggle-able, I don't think it'll be necessary in this case. Time will tell. 

 

Yeah, I took some liberties with the term, I agree.

The obscured link of course is DRM free = personal freedom & privacy violation = loss of personal freedom.

However, it could also be argued that all game mechanics designed to (1) tie the player to an arbitrary community and (2) necessitate continuous online contact (from statistics to achievements to updates to patches to DLC to episodic releases to multiplayer in singleplayer games) are in fact highly effective copy protection mechanisms, which could well fall into the DRM definition tomorrow.

 

You know, I was confused at first, but now I can see the argument you're making. If a DRM free game required you to have an internet connection that could then be used to track your copy and effectively turn into DRM.

 

I think in regards to DFC all this stuff is going to be optional. So I'm not going to freak out about it too much until I hear something to make me think otherwise. 

 

Though I do wonder if there will be a way for people who don't want to see social choice style pop-ups in their game to still share their choices with the community. Like it should be something that you can totally opt out of for obvious privacy/personal freedom reasons, but I feel like there are probably people who don't want to see the popups in their game, but may not mind if their choices are added to the giant pool of statistics. Or may want to see how their choices line up with the greater community after the fact.