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Could Queenie actually be...


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#1 Jelena

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 17:02

...the Vagabond? Or is this theory stupid? XD I've seen a few different theories and it's still not actually confirmed who she really is, as far as I can notice. As I'm replaying DFC at the moment without any suspense and pressure of the ending - since now I know what happens in the end - I can notice the details and stuff.

At the last conversation between Queenie and Zoe, Queenie says something like "We'll meet again, when everything ends" or something, I can't quote specifically what she said as I don't remember, but it is similar to what Vagabond told Zoe - that, at the end of her journey, she will see him again. Then, when Zoe leaves, Hanna comes out and Queenie tells her that her journey has just begun and that there's a lot waiting for her in the future, but for now she must help Zoe, and then later they can discuss about Hanna's journey. This gave me Vagabond vibes, as he is the "story protector" and a mentor in a way, so, as he "mentored" Zoe for her journey, it would make sense that he would also guide Hanna, since she is also a dreamer, and even had the same dreams as Zoe. Also, even though this story has ended, there are still problems that need to be solved - there will be more wars in Marcuria, and I suspect also in Stark, so a dreamer will be needed, and as Zoe did her part, Hanna will be the next dreamer to "save the world", therefore she will need guidance from Vagabond. So, Vagabond = Queenie?



#2 yodagreen3

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 17:18

Could?

Sure, why not? :D  Am I convinced of it, not yet... 
It seems possible to me. 
This is assuming Queenie isn't just Queenie and that her character is a mystery.
We never really learn who queenie is.

Ragnar has come forth and said that Queenie is not Saga/ April though. 


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#3 Jelena

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 21:05

Could?

Sure, why not? :D  Am I convinced of it, not yet... 
It seems possible to me. 
This is assuming Queenie isn't just Queenie and that her character is a mystery.
We never really learn who queenie is.

Ragnar has come forth and said that Queenie is not Saga/ April though. 

 

Yeah, well, we're all trying to decode many things, and Queenie is, among other things, a mystery :) But it could be possible that she at least has the same job as Vagabond :D



#4 Lee-m

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 21:08

and Queenie is, among other things, a mystery :)

I'm still holding out hope the final edition will include the cut book 5 dialogue with Queenie and fix what I consider to be one of the only real holes in the game.


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#5 shadakul

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 21:17

I was under the assumption that Queenie was one of the kin. They have a reputation for hiding out in stark disguised as inscrutable old humans. ;) 


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#6 Jelena

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 22:53

I'm still holding out hope the final edition will include the cut book 5 dialogue with Queenie and fix what I consider to be one of the only real holes in the game.

 

Yeah, I'm hoping for this, too.



#7 Jelena

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 22:54

I was under the assumption that Queenie was one of the kin. They have a reputation for hiding out in stark disguised as inscrutable old humans. ;)

 

Yeah, I came across this theory before :) Could as well be true.



#8 Kari2

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 00:06

I was under the assumption that Queenie was one of the kin. They have a reputation for hiding out in stark disguised as inscrutable old humans. ;)

 

I thought that at first until the epilogue in the HOAW. The title of the scene is Those That Walk Between Worlds. Saga connects Queenie with Rose, Alvin Peats partner. WATI turned Alvin Peats into Morpheus whom Zoe met in Chapter 6, Morpheus, of DF. WATI has been looking for Rose from that time on (which must have been close to 100 years?). So, I'm not sure what she is other than she was counted among those that walk between worlds.


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#9 Rendref

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 07:13

I said in another topic, Queeniee told Zoe something like "When we met last time, I told you you were only half there. You are still half here, not all here". That line sounded almost lexactly like the line White Dragon told Zoe in Dark Peoples place. So when playing I was convinced that Queenie is somehow White Dragon who escaped death. For what reasons she is in Stark and in old woman form (and definitely with history in Stark) I don't understand. Anyway, apparently, she could not be White Dragon, but then her lines don't make sense. Here being another Kin also does not explain the line above. And whole "Wake up for real" thing. How would Rose know that? That is all either mystery not needed or mystery left cut off.


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#10 Kari2

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 17:54

I said in another topic, Queeniee told Zoe something like "When we met last time, I told you you were only half there. You are still half here, not all here". That line sounded almost lexactly like the line White Dragon told Zoe in Dark Peoples place. So when playing I was convinced that Queenie is somehow White Dragon who escaped death. For what reasons she is in Stark and in old woman form (and definitely with history in Stark) I don't understand. Anyway, apparently, she could not be White Dragon, but then her lines don't make sense. Here being another Kin also does not explain the line above. And whole "Wake up for real" thing. How would Rose know that? That is all either mystery not needed or mystery left cut off.

 

It is interesting that Queenie knew that Zoe was the  dreamer, and everything rested on her. However, instead of telling Zoe outright and altering the course of The Story, she gave Zoe hints and allowed Zoe to discover this on her own. Book 5 also tells us that Queenie is Rose, Alvan Peats partner - which means she has been around for more than 100 years.


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#11 the red of the kin

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 19:47

It is interesting that Queenie knew that Zoe was the  dreamer, and everything rested on her. However, instead of telling Zoe outright and altering the course of The Story, she gave Zoe hints and allowed Zoe to discover this on her own. Book 5 also tells us that Queenie is Rose, Alvan Peats partner - which means she has been around for more than 100 years.

 

is there 100% proof she's that rose?


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#12 Starseeker

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 20:18

By the way, Queenie's connection to WATI might explain how she knew that Zoe and Hanna were dreamers.


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#13 Vainamoinen

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 20:41

is there 100% proof she's that rose?

 

Okay, before I start, has Alvin Peats ever mentioned something of a "Rose" he was in love with? :ph34r:


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#14 the red of the kin

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 20:55

By the way, Queenie's connection to WATI might explain how she knew that Zoe and Hanna were dreamers.

 

Definitely...and there was a Red dragon n WATI's floor decorations...
Queenie was a "loose thread" to WATI, so she might have had a hand on Eingana but then maybe decided to split. 

 

Okay, before I start, has Alvin Peats ever mentioned something of a "Rose" he was in love with? :ph34r:

 

I briefly watched the scene with Peats but didn't see any mentions. Also the wiki page doesn't seem to have intel on a Rose. This might be worth digging...I'll simply have to replay DF:TLJ.

got an excuse: see ya :P


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#15 Vainamoinen

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 21:04

Does the very last scene of Chapters possibly contain the very first mention of a "Rose" character?

Is "Rose" even necessarily Queenie? Didn't e.g. Hanna make fireflies too?

Is the "Alvin" mentioned there possibly not even Alvin Peats?


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#16 Kari2

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 21:18

Does the very last scene of Chapters possibly contain the very first mention of a "Rose" character?

Is "Rose" even necessarily Queenie? Didn't e.g. Hanna make fireflies too?

Is the "Alvin" mentioned there possibly not even Alvin Peats?

 

I understood the scene where Hanna gave Zoe a firefly, to indicate that Hanna was giving Zoe one of Queenie's fireflies. Hanna was having Zoe return the firefly so that Queenie would know that Hanna received Queenie's message and was alright.

 

The question of whether or not Queenie is Rose can be debated forever. I personally thought that the flying teacup was a give-away. Queenie also told Zoe that she has had many names in the past - names which she grew out of. She also told Zoe in one of the dialogue choices that she has made mistakes in the past and has been trying to make up for them.


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#17 Rendref

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 21:18

It is interesting that Queenie knew that Zoe was the  dreamer, and everything rested on her. However, instead of telling Zoe outright and altering the course of The Story, she gave Zoe hints and allowed Zoe to discover this on her own. Book 5 also tells us that Queenie is Rose, Alvan Peats partner - which means she has been around for more than 100 years.

 

100 years or 200, it does not matter. If she's just a human why does she speaks in phrases White Dragon used? Or did she know that Zoe for real in Mumbai lab at the time and that what she meant by "Wake up"? However, that does not explain White Dragon-ish phrases. 

 

So, I went back to the game and did a little research.

Last time we visited, Queenie said "You're fading. Like a page that was left in the sun for too long". "If we both make it through the storm ahead, I'll find you again". Aaaand she never did. I guess that was the scene cut from the Book 5. Why would you cut that? Please, bring it back. Vagabond said Zoe and him, they will meet, they never did. Queenie told her she would find her and she never did.

 

Second time we visited Queenie said: "I remember the first time you visited, I told you you weren't ... quite here. And you are not. Oart of you is lost in Dreaming. And part of you is a Dream. You are not all here. That worries me. I think more than anything, you need to remember. And you need to wake up". But I checked, and what do you know, Queenie never said such words to Zoe first time she visited. Not in the game. First time we visited her (Book One) there was no talking of dreaming and waking up whatsoever.

But you know who said similar words when Zoe visited her for the first (and only) time? The White Dragon lady, back in Dreamfall. I quote: "How fascinating! You're here, and yet you're not. Can I touch you?"... Then talking about "Faith will bring you home" thing White Dragon said: "That's easy. You're not really here". "To go back to your own world you just have to wake up". "This isn't a dream, but you're dreaming".

 

Well, what do you think? I don't know any other character that sounds like that. I mean, if Queenie is not White Dragon or any of the kin, and this coincidence in phrases is really just a coincidence... then it's very strange indeed. Because all other things Queenie said are ok and do fir nicely into Queenie=Rose Alvin Peats girlfriend thing.



#18 Bruno

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 21:24

Does the very last scene of Chapters possibly contain the very first mention of a "Rose" character?

Is "Rose" even necessarily Queenie? Didn't e.g. Hanna make fireflies too?

Is the "Alvin" mentioned there possibly not even Alvin Peats?

 

After checking the TLJ/Dreamfall transcript, I only found the following "Rose" references:

- Marcuria has a Rose Bridge off Ayrede Avenue (mentioned by the the Map Merchant in TLJ)

- Zoe's address in Casablanca is Jardin des Roses 42A

- Blind Bob calls Zoe "rose petal" and "sweet rose"

- Brian Westhouse claims he knows the White is in the Dark People's Library because he was told by a Dolmari from the Rose Court

- Crow mentions that the winds that took him to the Dark People's Library smell like cinnamon and rose tea

 

No other Alvin references except Alvin Peats.


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#19 Kari2

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 21:27

100 years or 200, it does not matter. If she's just a human why does she speaks in phrases White Dragon used? Or did she know that Zoe for real in Mumbai lab at the time and that what she meant by "Wake up"? However, that does not explain White Dragon-ish phrases. 

 

 

According to Vestrum Tobias, only two dragons went to Stark. In TLJ the White dragon was confined to Arcadia as well as the Blue. That would mean that if Queenie is a dragon, she would be the Red or the Green.


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#20 Rendref

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 22:02

According to Vestrum Tobias, only two dragons went to Stark. In TLJ the White dragon was confined to Arcadia as well as the Blue. That would mean that if Queenie is a dragon, she would be the Red or the Green.

 

At the same time we've been told that "Everything changes". Guardian Realm was not accessible by the portal and then it was. Do not forget that White Dragon was dead at the moment Zoe spoke to Queenie in Stark. We also saw her ghost playing as Saga the toddler.

However, let's talk on this matter not quoting old info from TLJ, but trying to think. Yes, I personally don't see any point for Queenie to be White Dragon. That would have to involve a lot of explaining to do: why would Dragon chose Queenie? Queenie had a history back in Stark - Ragnar told that she was born and bred in Hong Kong, and she runs Bricks, and everybody around knows her. So she is not a new character here. There is no possibility for White Dragon to do so during her life (which had started much later, mind you, then Queenie had been born). Another option, is that somehow White Dragon spirit possesses Queenie and makes her saying things about dreaming. I think it's a stretch, though after Queenie said the thing about "You're not quite here", Zoe asked her "What?" and Queenie replied "I don't know", which would add to this theory.

I don't want Queenie to be anyone but Queenie/Rose (though more insight on Rose character would be appreciated. For example back in Dreamfall, when we were told about Peats), however, I just look for an explanation of awful similarities between "dreaming" and "you're not here" things told to Zoe both by Queenie and the White Dragon.

Queenie being a Red or a Blue does not make much sense either, because they are not part of the story. If Cortez is alive... What happened to McAllen... we don't know these things. And none of them met Zoe before to say "When you visited the first time", mind you.

 

I see that she cannot be White Dragon. However, I see that she speaks like Dragon from Dreamfall in certain moments. Is that just a coincidence? That's what troubling me.






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