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Dreaming, Undreaming and Storytime

Dreaming Undreaming Storytime

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#1 Camillo

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 00:29

I was trying to sort out relations between Dreaming (Lux), Undreaming and Storytime.

 

Concerning the latter, we know that it is the place where all stories begin and end. Dreams flow from Stark to Arcadia throught Storytime, being a force which shapes the universe. Everything started there with a Dream of Lux, also the twin worlds. Even division of them seem to not change the fact they are connected as they were made from the same Dream.

 

I was wondering how Undereaming came to being. Most probably, is started existing when also Lux did. Nevertheless, everything seems to be in order when Dreaming and the Undreaming are in Balance.

 

We know that at some point Lux started dying and it was because of losing his heart, which was stolen by Klacks. Therefore, Klacks may be the one who is to blame for the inbalance between Dreaming and Undereaming. Because Lux got weaker, the Undreaming became stronger and dangerous. I wonder if monks in Tibet would have been able to make their ritual if that balance had not got misplaced in the first spot. I guess probably not. Therefore, maybe Cortez's intention in the first place was not some evil plan but he wanted balance not only between worlds but also between Dreaming and Undreaming. If Lux stopped Dreaming, the world would cease existing. Therefore, Brian may have been sent to Arcadia to merge Dreaming and Undreaming back together but he failed as the latter took control over him.

 

There are some things which I trying to understand - why the Undreaming was residing in Storytime and the Dreaming in Arcadia and not for instance reverse? How Klacks manged to steal Lux's heart? We know we was powerful Necromancer but still Lux is a god. The opposite of Lux is Undreaming as they merged together at the end of Chapters but what about Yaga? What is the relation between the Sisters and the Undreaming? And why we were left with questions regarding Cortez role? This question should have been answered in DFC. 


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#2 Pawlo_86

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 06:56

My thinks:

- When Lux used Soul-Stone to dream he/she was merged with White Fire (Dreaming) and Black Fire (Undreaming),

- at some point Black Fire was separated from Lux and that was reason why Lux was sick,

- at the end all forces: Lux (Dreaming and Undreaming) and Yaga (Nightmare) are united,

- Cortez and monks send Brian to reunite Dreaming and Undreaming and save Lux. But Brian failed. He was poisoned by Undreaming and became another tool in Undreaming's plan to destroy reality,

- Maybe Draic Kin used Undreaming as tool in creation of twin worlds and captured it in Storytime so Undreaming used Brian to kill Dragons as revenge,
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#3 Starseeker

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 12:20

Also don't forget first Lux stole the Soulstone from Yaga (How did that happen is yet another question...)

 

How Klacks manged to steal Lux's heart? We know we was powerful Necromancer but still Lux is a god.

 

That really bothers me. Well, we learned that Klacks was one of Yaga's servants in the past. Maybe she granted him some kind of power to get back what was hers? (Why she didn't do so herself is beyond me) But if so, then why didn't she take the Stone from Klacks right away... Maybe people's fear was enough to satisfy her back then and she thought leaving it with Klacks would bring her more souls to feed on, who knows.

 

- Cortez and monks send Brian to reunite Dreaming and Undreaming and save Lux. But Brian failed. He was poisoned by Undreaming and became another tool in Undreaming's plan to destroy reality,

 

Maybe he sent Brian only to unleash the Undreaming? I think it has something to do with Brian being awake in Storytime, normally that shouldn't be possible, so the Undreaming sensed that and appeared. This probably wouldn't work with Zoe, because she has strong connection to Storytime.

I believe Zoe too was a part of Cortez's plan. She's the Dreamer, so it seems to me, only she could have reunited Lux, Nox and the Undreaming inside herself. Brian was just a human, I don't think he could have done that.

Or Cortez was like "damn that didn't work now we need plan B" XD

 

- Maybe Draic Kin used Undreaming as tool in creation of twin worlds and captured it in Storytime so Undreaming used Brian to kill Dragons as revenge,

 

That's an interesting idea!

 

EDIT

 

Also it would be good to know when did Klacks stole the Stone, and since that happened some time ago, why didn't the world  fall apart earlier? And what did Lux really need to get back to health - the Stone or the Yaga?



#4 the red of the kin

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 12:28

I was trying to sort out relations between Dreaming (Lux), Undreaming and Storytime.

 

Concerning the latter, we know that it is the place where all stories begin and end. Dreams flow from Stark to Arcadia throught Storytime, being a force which shapes the universe. Everything started there with a Dream of Lux, also the twin worlds. Even division of them seem to not change the fact they are connected as they were made from the same Dream.

 

Ok, wait.

Storytime is where stories begin and end. Warning: stories, not dreams (?).
Dreams flow from Stark to Arcadia through Storytime?
1) I imagine people in Arcadia dream to, therefore dreams would flow from Arcadia to Stark too (?)

2) if they pass through Storytime but Storytime is where all stories begin and end, can that mean that stories are created by dreams?

This was in fact an extremely old theory I had back in the first DF.


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#5 the red of the kin

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 12:32

I was wondering how Undereaming came to being. Most probably, is started existing when also Lux did. Nevertheless, everything seems to be in order when Dreaming and the Undreaming are in Balance.

 

 

It makes sense that the Undreaming existed before the dreaming, if the dreaming had a starting point. The dreaming could not dream the undreaming because it would cease its existence.
Unless the undreaming is much like the Dark Matter in the universe. An entity that funtions as a collagene between matter.


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#6 Starseeker

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 12:42

1) I imagine people in Arcadia dream to, therefore dreams would flow from Arcadia to Stark too (?)

2) if they pass through Storytime but Storytime is where all stories begin and end, can that mean that stories are created by dreams?

 

1) I think, yes.

2) Since dreams are building blocks of reality, it can...

 

But wait, does that mean that dreams of every single person influence reality?


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#7 the red of the kin

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 12:50

But wait, does that mean that dreams of every single person influence reality?

 

 

It would very much make sense...if Stark and Arcadia were the only realities of TLJ. 
But after DFC we also come to know about the HOAW and the Multiverse. A concept that is pretty hard to grasp (people at CERN are pretty happy is seems the Higgs Boson's mass seems to disprove it)


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#8 Riaise

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 14:15

1) I imagine people in Arcadia dream to, therefore dreams would flow from Arcadia to Stark too (?)

 

It seems like it should work that way, but, in Dreamfall, Gordon tells April that dreams are only flowing from Stark to Arcadia and not the other way around. Although he is unconcerned by this because it doesn't affect the Balance.


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#9 Camillo

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 23:41

It seems like it should work that way, but, in Dreamfall, Gordon tells April that dreams are only flowing from Stark to Arcadia and not the other way around. Although he is unconcerned by this because it doesn't affect the Balance.

 

He did say that and because of this I was under impression that it is a rule. But after double checking, he seems to be refererring to the situation in Dreamfall after building the Tower. My oversight  :blush:

 

(Please check starting from 6:19)

 

 

Transcription:

 

Dreams are passing from Stark to Arcadia, but not the other way around. A slow trickle that may grow to a torrent.

 

Ok, wait.

Storytime is where stories begin and end. Warning: stories, not dreams (?).


Thanks for catching that. I meant stories. ;)


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#10 the red of the kin

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 06:25

AAAAAH that's right! The guardian!

Yep: now I remember. Dreams are definitely supposed to go both ways. Who knows why the Prophet wanted the dreams to flow only from Stark? Maybe because they had no "magic"?
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#11 Vanya-illin

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 18:14

AAAAAH that's right! The guardian!

Yep: now I remember. Dreams are definitely supposed to go both ways. Who knows why the Prophet wanted the dreams to flow only from Stark? Maybe because they had no "magic"?

More likely because the Arcadian dreams that should have flowed to Stark are being bottled up in the Well of Dreams.


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#12 Pawlo_86

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 21:39

More likely because the Arcadian dreams that should have flowed to Stark are being bottled up in the Well of Dreams.


Well Of Dreams contains dream energy from Stark (captured by Dreamachines). No idea about dreams from Arcadia. Maybe they are stored in steam machines/pipe network for research of ultimate message?
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#13 Starseeker

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 22:23

More likely because the Arcadian dreams that should have flowed to Stark are being bottled up in the Well of Dreams.

Well Of Dreams contains dream energy from Stark (captured by Dreamachines). No idea about dreams from Arcadia.

 

Oh. Finally I think I got it. Probably.

So when the Guardian said: "Dreams are passing from Stark to Arcadia, but not the other way around. A slow trickle that may grow to a torrent", he was referring to the effect of dream-machines: first, it was a slow trickle, because only dream energies of those who had the prototype were gathered in the Well of Dreams, then it grew to a torrent after dream-machines were released and everyone started to use them. And if dreams do not pass from Arcadia to Stark then it's safe to assume, they are also somehow gathered and sent to the Well of Dreams. Using steam-spheres, for example?

Is that correct?



#14 Pawlo_86

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 22:31

Dreamer\Dreamachines -> Eingana/Eingana II -> Well Of Dreams

#15 Starseeker

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 23:16

I am more concerned with Arcadian dreams now.







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