Jump to content


Photo

If RTG is still taking suggestions


  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 Kari2

Kari2

    Vestrum Crier

  • Minstrum
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 909 posts
  • LocationSan Francisco Bay Area

Posted 24 June 2016 - 18:33

Graphic and audio volume issues aside, I felt that Zoe in Story Time played like an arcade game. I felt that the earlier version demonstrated enough urgency regarding the need for Zoe to return. The strength of the earlier version was in the personal connection Zoe makes with each dreamer - it validated her new role and powers. The new additions feel like Zoe should be running along an obstacle course and shooting from her hip. I think the new additions need to be broken up with, at least, one more personal encounter.

 

In Propast, Zoe (bioengineer) needs one more algae test field. The game clearly felt chopped. If I hadn't played the game before, I don't think the puzzle would have felt quite complete.


  • Vainamoinen, othertomperson and Insulin like this

#2 Morten

Morten

    RTG Programmer

  • RTG Staff
  • 1057 posts
  • LocationOslo, Norway

Posted 27 June 2016 - 15:24

We're always taking suggestions, but these changes were in fact made due to first-time player feedback about them not understanding what they were doing, that the puzzles themselves were hard to understand and/or had a clunky feel to them.

We're pretty confident that how it is now will be a better introduction to the story for new players, and we expected users that played the previous version to feel like "somethings" missing in regards to how it played before, and I think that's mostly because it's now in fact pretty different.

 

We do appreciate the feedback and would love to hear more if you have any. :)


  • Insulin likes this

Red Thread Games PR0grammer & Naturally Selected Part-Time "Keep Track of Forum"-person / Community Overseer


#3 Vainamoinen

Vainamoinen

    Harbinger of the Balance

  • Vestrum
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6134 posts

Posted 27 June 2016 - 15:52

"Introduction to the story" is the key phrase here. The original Storytime sequence also featured an introduction to game mechanics – i.e. Zoë's powers. The feedback encountered from players seems entirely logical and understandable to me, it's the conclusion you guys drew that is baffling to me.

 

The problem wasn't the challenge in itself, but the way the game mechanics were presented. Catching the falling dreamer had a clunky feel, but it was the controls that were the problem, not the puzzle itself. And the frightened dreamer puzzle was hard to understand not because the puzzle was confusing, but because you couldn't do anything with the hotspots until the dreaming person stopped talking (which could take quite a while).

 

Those were the real gamestoppers here, just like some of the "find the hotspot" type problems that followed . :mellow:

 

So, uhm, yay for "old Storytime". :)


  • Morten, Jecica, NeilClaimer and 2 others like this

Hey Ubisoft, you can keep your "seamless vast online GTA in space" to yourselves. Signed, one of the greatest Beyond Good & Evil fans alive.


#4 Indrid Cold

Indrid Cold

    Harbinger of the Balance

  • Vestrum
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3056 posts

Posted 27 June 2016 - 16:49

On Storytime: Perhaps it would feel better if Zoë approached the "easily resolvable" nightmare people and spoke to them, instead of just literally handwaving them away. It would show that she still cares about what's going on, while I think the handwave kinda made it look like she was bored.

Of course that might be intentional, I'm just guessing it's not because of how the original version was.
  • Morten, Teller, Vainamoinen and 2 others like this

#5 Kari2

Kari2

    Vestrum Crier

  • Minstrum
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 909 posts
  • LocationSan Francisco Bay Area

Posted 27 June 2016 - 18:31

I like the original introduction. The dialogue between Zoe and the Dreamers was very important in showing that she cared and that she felt that she had a real purposes. These elements seem to be lost in the new version. The later dialogue choices between Zoe and the Vagabond, don't apply as well to the new version.


  • Jecica, Vainamoinen, NeilClaimer and 1 other like this

#6 Teller

Teller

    Harbinger of the Balance

  • Drachkin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1809 posts
  • LocationAlais

Posted 28 June 2016 - 04:22

I tend to agree, maybe the first one would be a hand gesture, and then the next you talk to them, grow through it.  I also don't like how she just dismisses those following, makes her seem callous and unlikable.  The original was more interactive, I like interactive. If first time players didn't get the original, I don't know how they would get this because really there's less ways to figure out what you're supposed to do.   This feels empty, powerless.  Maybe that's Zoe but...

 

I remember the original preview RTG had of storytime.  You could choose what dreams you went into and could use things from one dream in another.  I liked that version.  I do see how this one fits it better with what the did in book 5 but...

 

Also the vagabond says he'll see her again at the end of the story.  I don't remember seeing him again at the end.  So is it really the end?


  • Vainamoinen and ct2651 like this

Remember Alatiens that the spirits of their Tellers watch out for you when you most need it.

-Christine-
Dream Traveller

Cannon Stroker
Adventure Gamer
Group Hugger

Dream Blogger
Upping the perviness factor of the Salty Seaman since 2013.


#7 Dmm

Dmm

    Vestrum Crier

  • Drachkin
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 740 posts

Posted 28 June 2016 - 14:11

Also the vagabond says he'll see her again at the end of the story.  I don't remember seeing him again at the end.  So is it really the end?

 

I always just assumed he meant the end of her life, not just that part of her life shown in DF/DFC.


  • Indrid Cold likes this

#8 erikw

erikw

    Rubber Ducky

  • Minstrum
  • Pip
  • 9 posts

Posted 23 August 2016 - 18:56

To me it seems like everyone who bothers to write about it disagrees with you RTG.
I really wanted to be able to play though the game again in the future and see how things would unfold if I did the opposite compared to my choices now.
If you still feel confident this version is better, could you then please give us the opportunity to download book four again so that we get the change to do that?
As a backer I don´t feel that is to much to ask.

Best rergards / Erik W



#9 Morten

Morten

    RTG Programmer

  • RTG Staff
  • 1057 posts
  • LocationOslo, Norway

Posted 24 August 2016 - 08:16

I really wanted to be able to play though the game again in the future and see how things would unfold if I did the opposite compared to my choices now.
If you still feel confident this version is better, could you then please give us the opportunity to download book four again so that we get the change to do that?
As a backer I don´t feel that is to much to ask.

 

We don't have a backlog of builds lying around for distribution of previous releases. It would mean we would have to make it work for the current Unity version, which is just simply too much work for no return.

That said, there's no changes made so that you miss out on something. The old Storytime "puzzles" didn't have anything to do with your choices at all. 

 

To me it seems like everyone who bothers to write about it disagrees with you RTG.

 

We're always very happy to get feedback and we take all of it into account when trying to improve the game. :)

Now, this is my honest personal opinion; People that are not posting about it are generally fine with it. So yeah, generally it's easier to spot and comment on what you don't like. 


  • Edreamer Jamil, bongboy and ct2651 like this

Red Thread Games PR0grammer & Naturally Selected Part-Time "Keep Track of Forum"-person / Community Overseer


#10 erikw

erikw

    Rubber Ducky

  • Minstrum
  • Pip
  • 9 posts

Posted 10 September 2016 - 10:59

Hi Morten
 

We don't have a backlog of builds lying around for distribution of previous releases.

Apparently I do! :)
I found an archive on one of my harddrives containting the following files.
Could you please tell me which one of these is the last one containg the original version of the dreams and whatever else you may have changed?  ..and between what books did you upgrade Unity?

DreamfallChaptersWin1.1.3.zip      (2 824 479 565 bytes)
DreamfallChaptersWin_x86 with patch 1.1.zip     (3 269 235 307 bytes)
DreamfallChaptersWin.zip            (4 216 646 762 bytes)
DreamfallChaptersWin2.0.2.zip    (4 688 143 875 bytes)
DreamfallChaptersWin3.0.1.zip    (5 362 218 639 bytes)
DreamfallChaptersWin3.0.3.zip    (5 345 980 120 bytes)

When I play the game again I guess I´ll have to start with an earlier build anyway because of the horrible performance drop when you changed version of the Unity engine. You may have corrected this by now, but between book 2 and 3 or 3 and 4 I had to change computer if I wanted it to be enjoyable.
Before that the game ran fine or at least acceptable on a Core 2 Quad Q6600 @ 2880 MHz, 4 GB and a GeForce GTX 275, 896 MB and Windows XP x64, but after that it was just painful.
I really hope this will be fixed so that I can move the game to the computer in the "adventure game corner" again.
When you buy a game with a specific set of system requirements you expect that to remain true.
That is one of the reasons I´m waiting with book 4 and 5 as long as possible; I don´t want the story to be interrupted. The longer I wait the more bugs(if there are any) will be discovered and fixed I hope.

Best regards / Erik W



#11 khh

khh

    Harbinger of the Balance

  • Moderator
  • 7078 posts
  • LocationNorway

Posted 11 September 2016 - 10:02

Could you please tell me which one of these is the last one containg the original version of the dreams and whatever else you may have changed?  ..and between what books did you upgrade Unity?

The upgrade from Unity 4 to Unity 5 happened with the last patch for Book 3, the 3.2.9 patch (the last patch before that was 3.0.5 which contained German voice localisation). The changes to the intro and the dreams happened with the last patch to Book 4 I believe, though it may also not have been before Book 5.

April Ryan is my friend,
Every sorrow she can mend.
When I visit her dark realm,
Does it simply overwhelm.


#12 Indrid Cold

Indrid Cold

    Harbinger of the Balance

  • Vestrum
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3056 posts

Posted 11 September 2016 - 12:49

The changes to the intro and the dreams happened with the last patch to Book 4 I believe, though it may also not have been before Book 5.

Definitely with book 5 and not earlier. If it had been earlier, I wouldn't have waited for 5's release to start replaying.


  • khh likes this

#13 othertomperson

othertomperson

    Rubber Ducky

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 15 posts

Posted 02 October 2016 - 21:12

"Introduction to the story" is the key phrase here. The original Storytime sequence also featured an introduction to game mechanics – i.e. Zoë's powers. The feedback encountered from players seems entirely logical and understandable to me, it's the conclusion you guys drew that is baffling to me.

 

The problem wasn't the challenge in itself, but the way the game mechanics were presented. Catching the falling dreamer had a clunky feel, but it was the controls that were the problem, not the puzzle itself. And the frightened dreamer puzzle was hard to understand not because the puzzle was confusing, but because you couldn't do anything with the hotspots until the dreaming person stopped talking (which could take quite a while).

 

Those were the real gamestoppers here, just like some of the "find the hotspot" type problems that followed . :mellow:

 

So, uhm, yay for "old Storytime". :)

 

Having literally just played through the new opening sequence, the problem now is that the mechanics are not introduced at all. Like in any capacity. You're dropped in and expected to understand what Mind, Light and Time all do. It might not have been the best tutorial in the world, but it was there and it did a job. If I hadn't played Book 1 two years ago I would have found the mechanics a little confusing with no introduction to them, or when would be a good time to use them.

 

 

 

When I play the game again I guess I´ll have to start with an earlier build anyway because of the horrible performance drop when you changed version of the Unity engine. You may have corrected this by now, but between book 2 and 3 or 3 and 4 I had to change computer if I wanted it to be enjoyable.

Before that the game ran fine or at least acceptable on a Core 2 Quad Q6600 @ 2880 MHz, 4 GB and a GeForce GTX 275, 896 MB and Windows XP x64, but after that it was just painful.
 

 

 

I agree, actually. In 2016 a GTX 1080 is getting me the same framerate as I was getting in 2014 with a GTX 970, which shouldn't really be happening.


  • Vainamoinen and Riaise like this

#14 LootHunter

LootHunter

    Fringe Café Regular

  • Banned
  • PipPip
  • 100 posts
  • LocationRussia, Moscow

Posted 11 October 2016 - 20:33

Having literally just played through the new opening sequence, the problem now is that the mechanics are not introduced at all. Like in any capacity. You're dropped in and expected to understand what Mind, Light and Time all do. It might not have been the best tutorial in the world, but it was there and it did a job. If I hadn't played Book 1 two years ago I would have found the mechanics a little confusing with no introduction to them, or when would be a good time to use them.

I somewhat disagree. When I've started to play Chapters (in this august) I pretty fast grasped that Time stops time, LIght casts light and Mind is some kind of mind probe.

However, what I failed to learn at first, was that I can rotate items, when looking at them in my inventory. So I think that there should be at least some text hint that I can do that.


  • Morten and bongboy like this

#15 othertomperson

othertomperson

    Rubber Ducky

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 15 posts

Posted 25 October 2016 - 03:01

I somewhat disagree. When I've started to play Chapters (in this august) I pretty fast grasped that Time stops time, LIght casts light and Mind is some kind of mind probe.

However, what I failed to learn at first, was that I can rotate items, when looking at them in my inventory. So I think that there should be at least some text hint that I can do that.

 

I've changed my mind again, tbh. Not because I think the mechanics are adequately introduced (they aren't), but because they aren't used again until around book 5 anyway xD



#16 Insulin

Insulin

    Rubber Ducky

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 4 posts

Posted 10 November 2016 - 13:35

... I felt that the earlier version demonstrated enough urgency regarding the need for Zoe to return. The strength of the earlier version was in the personal connection Zoe makes with each dreamer - it validated her new role and powers. 

... In Propast, Zoe (bioengineer) needs one more algae test field. The game clearly felt chopped. If I hadn't played the game before, I don't think the puzzle would have felt quite complete.

 

We're always taking suggestions, but these changes were in fact made due to first-time player feedback about them not understanding what they were doing, that the puzzles themselves were hard to understand and/or had a clunky feel to them. ...

 

I have been thinking a lot of why these where cut out, and I tend to understand the arguments from RTG. Rationalization is a good thing when all has been done. The other side of things, is that the cut out parts where so brilliantly done, and could together give a really nice intro/demo for the game. It doesn't matter that these things will not be included in the game, because they can definitely start some thinking for a new person, and for him/her to start the journey. Also this is without giving anything away from the story. These where difficult parts for many, I agree, and that would be brilliant for a demo. A demo is good when it gets people to concentrate hard. These nice spots gets you feel the game, and once solved you just want more, .. and you won't meet them again in the game.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users