Jump to content


Photo

How did Ferdows pass through the Shift to Stark? And many more Questions!

Ferdows Shift Brain Westhouse Undreaming Saga April Ryan

  • Please log in to reply
49 replies to this topic

#21 TheDreamfallen

TheDreamfallen

    Fringe Café Regular

  • Vestrum
  • PipPip
  • 70 posts
  • LocationPhiladelphia, USA

Posted 24 June 2016 - 13:34

It could also have to with the timing of when Saga shifted. She shows up right at the last minute (which is when she is supposed to show up, because that was written) when reality is breaking down, dreams are seeping in and the worlds are starting to merge. Maybe this bends the rules, makes the worlds closer. Something like that?

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
  • Foolsredemption and Starseeker like this

April's dead.

 

My blog, (including reviews on DFC and other games and tech): https://gexpblog.wor.../tag/dreamfall/


#22 TowCat

TowCat

    Rubber Ducky

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 29 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 24 June 2016 - 19:44

The first portal Saga ever opens (puzzle with drawings) gives you a "first shift" achievement. That indicates she opens shifts. Are they different than April's shifts? The game is unclear about this. I guess I'll never understand it.

 

Yes, they are different. April needed always a "boost", first Cortez, then Crow. Sage has Songlines. She can use these to go everywhere without a "boost". I think it is simple.


▬|█████████|▬ This is Nudelholz. Copy Nudelholz into your profile to make better Kuchens or other Teigprodukte! Oder take it und hau it on the Kopp of a bekloppt Person to give a better Gefühl than vorher!


#23 Jelena

Jelena

    Arcadia Native

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 270 posts
  • LocationKosovska Mitrovica, Kosovo/Serbia

Posted 25 June 2016 - 01:34

What do you mean it was told to be false that Saga isn't the reborn April? Who said that? It makes perfect sense of the rebirth:

 

1. In Dreamfall, The Six tell Kian that he needs to kill the Scorpion (April) so she could be reborn.

2. April dies towards the end of Dreamfall.

3. In the beginning of DFC, the magicals put April to rest.

4. In the very next scene, Saga's papa waits in front of the door for his wife to give birth - to Saga (coincidence? I think not)

5. Baby Saga encounters someone in the room with the fireplace, which I think is the White Dragon - correct me here if I'm wrong. Anyway, she tells her some important stuff there. Here we realize that Saga is very important for the story.

6. Small child Saga draws about April's journey in TLJ, along with her continuous story that TLJ did not include. She says that she remembers being on that journey, so that it is her.

7. The resemblance between DFC April and Saga is obvious.

8. April and Crow are reunited in the end - literally and figuratively, as Crow is with Saga afterwards.

 

This is what I can think of at the moment.


  • bongboy, Rowan37, Pawlo_86 and 1 other like this

#24 Rebel With A Cause

Rebel With A Cause

    Rubber Ducky

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 23 posts
  • LocationDenmark

Posted 25 June 2016 - 09:52

I really don't understand, with all due respect, how anyone can still be confused about Saga being April reborn. The game explicitly states it on numerous occasions. :)

#25 the red of the kin

the red of the kin

    Vestrum Herald

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1067 posts
  • LocationTrieste (Italy)

Posted 25 June 2016 - 10:23

The game explicitly states April is Saga in the same way it explicitly states that Queenie is Rose, Reza is now not brainwashed, Zoe is Lux and Nox and now has the Undreaming too, Kian is a bloodless King in that he has no regal blood, Crow is the same Crow, April is still..."alive", and so on.


  • Riaise and Starseeker like this

IF YOU'RE A GHOST.......JUST LEAVE ME BE!


#26 Rebel With A Cause

Rebel With A Cause

    Rubber Ducky

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 23 posts
  • LocationDenmark

Posted 25 June 2016 - 11:32

Queenie is definitely not Rose ;) she talks about Rose as another person when examining the tea cup

#27 Indrid Cold

Indrid Cold

    Harbinger of the Balance

  • Vestrum
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3099 posts

Posted 25 June 2016 - 12:12

Queenie is definitely not Rose ;) she talks about Rose as another person when examining the tea cup

That's Saga Alvane, not Queenie...

#28 the red of the kin

the red of the kin

    Vestrum Herald

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1067 posts
  • LocationTrieste (Italy)

Posted 25 June 2016 - 13:42

Queenie is definitely not Rose ;) she talks about Rose as another person when examining the tea cup

Exactly my point  ;)

 

EDIT: and some say Queenie is really Cortez reborn  :lol:  :lol:


  • Starseeker likes this

IF YOU'RE A GHOST.......JUST LEAVE ME BE!


#29 the red of the kin

the red of the kin

    Vestrum Herald

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1067 posts
  • LocationTrieste (Italy)

Posted 25 June 2016 - 13:45

Yes, they are different. April needed always a "boost", first Cortez, then Crow. Sage has Songlines. She can use these to go everywhere without a "boost". I think it is simple.

 

Poor April :(


IF YOU'RE A GHOST.......JUST LEAVE ME BE!


#30 Jelena

Jelena

    Arcadia Native

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 270 posts
  • LocationKosovska Mitrovica, Kosovo/Serbia

Posted 25 June 2016 - 14:37

Exactly my point  ;)

 

EDIT: and some say Queenie is really Cortez reborn  :lol:  :lol:

 

So, we're still not very sure who Queenie really is. The suspense and confusion is killing me XD



#31 Starseeker

Starseeker

    Fringe Café Regular

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 81 posts
  • LocationRussia

Posted 25 June 2016 - 17:41

The game explicitly states April is Saga in the same way it explicitly states that Queenie is Rose, Reza is now not brainwashed, Zoe is Lux and Nox and now has the Undreaming too, Kian is a bloodless King in that he has no regal blood, Crow is the same Crow, April is still..."alive", and so on.

 

Surprising lack of reliable facts just makes me so frustrated sometimes...



#32 the red of the kin

the red of the kin

    Vestrum Herald

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1067 posts
  • LocationTrieste (Italy)

Posted 25 June 2016 - 18:04

When leaving, Queenie says she's a loose thread to WATI. I think she's either a dragon (not the Red) or another scientist.
  • Starseeker likes this

IF YOU'RE A GHOST.......JUST LEAVE ME BE!


#33 Pawlo_86

Pawlo_86

    Harbinger of the Balance

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2737 posts
  • LocationPoland

Posted 25 June 2016 - 22:26

When leaving, Queenie says she's a loose thread to WATI. I think she's either a dragon (not the Red) or another scientist.


Kari2 has great theory that she is Rose - a woman of Alvin Peats who plots personal revenge against WATI.
  • the red of the kin and Starseeker like this

#34 Rebel With A Cause

Rebel With A Cause

    Rubber Ducky

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 23 posts
  • LocationDenmark

Posted 26 June 2016 - 09:21

That's Saga Alvane, not Queenie...


Whoops, yes, I meant Saga. Saga is not Rose. ;)

#35 Vanya-illin

Vanya-illin

    Arcadia Native

  • Vestrum
  • PipPipPip
  • 181 posts
  • LocationNew Jersey

Posted 26 June 2016 - 23:15

... Crow is the same Crow ...

I don't think so. Crow was already old for a bird in Book 5, complaining to Kian about finding gray feathers on himself. Then he got his neck snapped. In the five-years-later Bloodless King scene, a quite small young bird was perched on Saga's shoulder. If Saga's herbal compendium contained elixirs to resurrect and rejuvenate Crow, I should think she would have used the latter on herself! No, I think we're looking at reincarnation instead.


  • the red of the kin likes this

#36 the red of the kin

the red of the kin

    Vestrum Herald

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1067 posts
  • LocationTrieste (Italy)

Posted 26 June 2016 - 23:22

I don't think so. Crow was already old for a bird in Book 5, complaining to Kian about finding gray feathers on himself. Then he got his neck snapped. In the five-years-later Bloodless King scene, a quite small young bird was perched on Saga's shoulder. If Saga's herbal compendium contained elixirs to resurrect and rejuvenate Crow, I should think she would have used the latter on herself! No, I think we're looking at reincarnation instead.

All you say is true. My post was meant to be ironic and confuse people on purpose.
I'm a bad boy ;)

IF YOU'RE A GHOST.......JUST LEAVE ME BE!


#37 Mystic

Mystic

    Rubber Ducky

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 18 posts

Posted 11 July 2016 - 21:41

Like what was the relationship of Saga and April. Till the end I thought April was reborn as Saga, but that was later told to be false. If that's the case, what compelled Saga to revive Crow?

As everyone said before, Saga is indeed April's reincarnation. Some user in Steam's forum stated that "Saga is her own person", which I didn't fully understand at first, but my interpretation of it now would be that April died and started a new life as Saga. However is not that simple as saying that Saga is just April 100% but reborn in a new body. I think Saga is a separate being that has her parents, her story, etc. but remembers what she did in her past life as April. That's what I think, could be wrong though.

 

Brian and Tobias both said that someone other than the Shifter trying to use a Shift would result in them being lost between the worlds.  The assumption is that they'd "fall out" at some point and land in Storytime.

 

Because that's the other key difference between what Saga creates and what we normally know of as a Shift -- all other Shifts that we've seen have been a tunnel (that we're told "passes through the world of dreams", ie. Storytime).
 
Saga's is not a tunnel, it's a simple doorway or window directly from one place to the other.  And it's a lot bigger than all the other Shifts we've seen too.
 
Now, this doesn't necessarily mean that it's not a Shift -- perhaps Saga just has better control over her powers than most Shifters and she can make something more advanced.  Certainly most Shifters didn't grow up outside of the normal universe nor know how to travel Songlines; that could be a part of it.

 

On the other hand, both Brian and Tobias got their information from Cortez.  It's possible that he misled them in order to discourage travel between worlds (since that would disrupt the Balance if too many people did it).  Perhaps when April first travelled to Arcadia, it wasn't Cortez channeling April's own power (as he claimed), but Cortez opening a Shift on his own and pushing April through it.  There have also been a couple of occasions when Crow has travelled through a Shift created by someone else, which might support this idea.  The hole in this theory is that there are other Shifters in the worlds (even if we don't meet them), and you'd think that at least one of them would have had someone willing to experiment.

 

I was just watching a gameplay of TLJ and headed to the forum because I had a doubt and your response helped me :P in TLJ, April manages to open a Shift and asks Brian to come with her to Stark and meet his friend Cortez again. Brian answers "If I tried to step through that, Miss Ryan, I would suffer a most unpleasant experience, and I would be lost in the between forever [...] And what does your Stark have to offer me? This world is more recognizable to me now", which matches what you said. It's also true that we've seen Chrow using other's portals so I wonder if Cortez was indeed lying or not just being vague to not encourage people to travel between worlds.

 

 

Or, who was controlling whom, between Brian and the Undreaming? In the memories of Brian we see a conversation happening between Brian and the Undreaming. But since both were voiced by the Physical body of Brian, I couldn't figure out who said what. But I distinctly remember a phrase, "How are you controlling me? I was supposed to control you!". Who said that? Brain or the Undreaming?

If Brain said that, it would mean Brian went to Storytime to capture Undreaming and control him. Why? And how did he think he could even control it in the first place? Or if the Undreaming had said that phrase, then that would mean, he failed in trying to control Brain Westhouse for some reason. How though? How was Brain powerful enough to control the Undreaming?

 

 

From DFC, when Crow shows Zöe those visions of Brian's past I understood that Brian had a deep desire to go back home even though he states to April in TLJ "What can your Stark offer to me? I'm more familiar with this world now" when she asks him to go with her through her Shift back to Stark as I commented before.

 

I think that Brian had a mix of emotions and maybe he only wanted to go back to Stark at first, but after being so much time trapped in Storytime and then spending 15 years in Arcadia he resigned himself to think that even if he came back Stark would feel foreign to him and Arcadia was his world now (same feelings that April shared in Dreamfall: TLJ and later did Zöe in DFC: Book 1, when Zöe hesites between helping people there or wake up from the coma).

 

But Brian only resigned to get back to Arcadia half-heartedly and his curiosity led him to study the magic in Arcadia, subsequently planning to join the twin worlds so he could take a place of power and wouldn't be stuck anywhere anymore.

 

Back at April and Brian's conversation in TLJ. At that time, April had to hand over a map to Brian and he told her that he was collecting maps. In that same conversation Brian told a bit of himself to April: about his youth, how he met Cortez, how he saved him in the Tibet and how he spent 3 months in a monastery. In his own words: "I spent three months in a monastary before... pushing on into the void. There's only one way for a nonShifter to pass through the Divide, and it's not an easy road to take". 

 

That makes me think at that time April met Brian he already had the Undreaming inside him, dormant or not, since we saw how Brian used to get drunk as a way to stop hearing the Undreaming in his head. Maybe this is just me imagining stuff, but him collecting maps may mean he was studying Arcadia's geography to start planning where to plant the Engine and such to reunite Arcadia and Stark by controlling the Undreaming. We learn in DFC that actually he fails and the Undreaming is trying to control him instead.

 

What I don't get is Brian's reacting when he first met the Undreaming. I mean, if he originally used the monks help to go to Storytime and try to control the Undreaming, why did he get so scared and acted as if he didn't know what that black floating fluid was?


  • Indrid Cold likes this

#38 magic88889

magic88889

    Vestrum Crier

  • Vestrum
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 688 posts

Posted 11 July 2016 - 21:58

I'm not sure it's clear that Brian knew about the Undreaming before crossing over, that point isn't really clear to me.  However, even if he did, reading about something, and seeing it are two very different things.  I'd run too if I saw a big swirling vortex coming after me.  That fear might even be heightened if he did know what it was. 



#39 Mystic

Mystic

    Rubber Ducky

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 18 posts

Posted 12 July 2016 - 00:39

I'm not sure it's clear that Brian knew about the Undreaming before crossing over, that point isn't really clear to me.  However, even if he did, reading about something, and seeing it are two very different things.  I'd run too if I saw a big swirling vortex coming after me.  That fear might even be heightened if he did know what it was. 

 

It isn't clear to me either. I explained myself badly, I get that getting prepared to fight something isn't the same that actually facing it and I'd be scared too but what I meant is that he looked scared and confused like someone who doesn't know what's happening would be. In fact, when Brian met the Vagabond and he asked him what he was doing there, Brian seemed all confused not knowing where he actually was. When the Undreaming appeared afterwards, he wondered out loud what that was.

 

It could be that he just didn't know how the Undreaming looked like, that he actually was looking for something else there or maybe the monks where trying to help him to get back to Stark by helping him cross the Divide but since it was Brian's first time in Storytime he didn't know where he was nor what the Undreaming was, I wonder really.



#40 the red of the kin

the red of the kin

    Vestrum Herald

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1067 posts
  • LocationTrieste (Italy)

Posted 12 July 2016 - 07:33

The game lacks explanation in this case but I see it this way.
as "usually" monks do, they gave Brian some vague references about a force of nature that is very powerful and must be "let in" or "unchained in him" ...hence we understand why Brian is fascinated and willing to believe he can use this power or bend it to his will. Cortez probably also told him  how he's crucial to the balance and, most of all, how there is another world but he can go there only via the Monk's ritual and letting the Undreaming into him. Brian is an explorer and we can guess he was very attracted by the idea of exploration. Plus Cortez saved his life ...which at that time meant nothing to him.

In the monastery he says he's at a crossroads but his path is chosen. Any man walking his path would be insane, but nonetheless he chose it. I think he knows there's something dangerous but not exactly what. The monks whisper about the Undreaming but they go silent when he approaches. They know if they tell him the whole truth he'd run away.

When he gets to storytime he gives the impression of not realizing what's going on. Probably the monks don't have a clue of what's there and if even there is a Vagabond

But why is the Vagabon dismayed by him and the Undreaming? He should know the Undreaming will fuse with the Dreaming as he knows Zoe's story as well (he tells her when he sees her).


  • Mystic likes this

IF YOU'RE A GHOST.......JUST LEAVE ME BE!






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Ferdows, Shift, Brain Westhouse, Undreaming, Saga, April, Ryan

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users