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How did Ferdows pass through the Shift to Stark? And many more Questions!

Ferdows Shift Brain Westhouse Undreaming Saga April Ryan

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#1 akhilpremraj

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 13:05

Hey Guys,

 

Just finished Dreamfall Chapters last night. At the end of the game, I felt like a lot of the things were unexplained right?

 

Spoliers :
Like what was the relationship of Saga and April. Till the end I thought April was reborn as Saga, but that was later told to be false. If that's the case, what compelled Saga to revive Crow?

 

Or, who was controlling whom, between Brian and the Undreaming? In the memories of Brian we see a conversation happening between Brian and the Undreaming. But since both were voiced by the Physical body of Brian, I couldn't figure out who said what. But I distinctly remember a phrase, "How are you controlling me? I was supposed to control you!". Who said that? Brain or the Undreaming?
If Brain said that, it would mean Brian went to Storytime to capture Undreaming and control him. Why? And how did he think he could even control it in the first place? Or if the Undreaming had said that phrase, then that would mean, he failed in trying to control Brain Westhouse for some reason. How though? How was Brain powerful enough to control the Undreaming?

 

I do feel like there is a lot more I'm missing, and I thought maybe it's because I haven't played The Longest Journey. I did play Dreamfall : The Longest Journey, but it was so long ago. I don't remember much other than the plot points directly referencing D:TLJ.

Anyways, to have an idea of the 1st game, I decided to watch a playthrough of The Longest Journey. I'm a couple of hours in and I just noticed the priest tells April that even if a portal is created between the worlds of Stark and Arcadia, only a Shifter can pass through. Even Brain says the same thing. And that the reason he had to go through Storytime in the first place was because of this issue.

 

So then my main question (I'd like to discuss about the other questions as well, I'm way to confused with a lot of things),

 

How did Ferdows pass through the portal created by Saga? A plot hole? Or am I missing something?

 

Sorry for the long post. But hopefully you guys would love to discuss these questions... :)


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#2 the red of the kin

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 13:11

Till the end I thought April was reborn as Saga, but that was later told to be false. If that's the case, what compelled Saga to revive Crow?

 
1) it seems that Saga has a bit of April in her somehow. Most long time fans of TLJ and forum members are sure that she actually is April reborn.
 
2) Saga knows already everything that will happened because "it's been written. so she must know she will revive Crow because "that's how the story goes".
 

How did Ferdows pass through the portal created by Saga? A plot hole? Or am I missing something?


I think we're all missing something, but let's say that Saga's portals are not the same as April's, somehow. I think it has something to do with the fact that she plays song instead of painting?


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#3 Pawlo_86

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 13:27

It seems that Cortez and monks send Brian with a mission:

- capture Undreamingg and use its powers,
- destroy Magic to stop it leaks to Stark,
- reunite Stark and Arcadia,

#4 Kahvinarksu

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 13:54

Hey Guys,

Just finished Dreamfall Chapters last night. At the end of the game, I felt like a lot of the things were unexplained right?

Spoliers :
Like what was the relationship of Saga and April. Till the end I thought April was reborn as Saga, but that was later told to be false. If that's the case, what compelled Saga to revive Crow?

Or, who was controlling whom, between Brian and the Undreaming? In the memories of Brian we see a conversation happening between Brian and the Undreaming. But since both were voiced by the Physical body of Brian, I couldn't figure out who said what. But I distinctly remember a phrase, "How are you controlling me? I was supposed to control you!". Who said that? Brain or the Undreaming?
If Brain said that, it would mean Brian went to Storytime to capture Undreaming and control him. Why? And how did he think he could even control it in the first place? Or if the Undreaming had said that phrase, then that would mean, he failed in trying to control Brain Westhouse for some reason. How though? How was Brain powerful enough to control the Undreaming?

I do feel like there is a lot more I'm missing, and I thought maybe it's because I haven't played The Longest Journey. I did play Dreamfall : The Longest Journey, but it was so long ago. I don't remember much other than the plot points directly referencing D:TLJ.

Anyways, to have an idea of the 1st game, I decided to watch a playthrough of The Longest Journey. I'm a couple of hours in and I just noticed the priest tells April that even if a portal is created between the worlds of Stark and Arcadia, only a Shifter can pass through. Even Brain says the same thing. And that the reason he had to go through Storytime in the first place was because of this issue.

So then my main question (I'd like to discuss about the other questions as well, I'm way to confused with a lot of things),

How did Ferdows pass through the portal created by Saga? A plot hole? Or am I missing something?

Sorry for the long post. But hopefully you guys would love to discuss these questions... :)

Sorry I am at work so I can't answer all of them but the impression i got for the relation of Saga and April is that Saga is April reborn with the knowledge of what she can do and she should do. It can be put as April's spirit was reborn as Saga. I can't recall that it was falsified. Do you mean the last scene where Saga and Kian appeared? Where the reborn Crow was on Saga's shoulder?


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#5 Pawlo_86

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 13:58

I still think that Crow isn't reborn. Saga bring him to life. Abnaxus said that at the end of his life Crow will bond with The Girl Who Walks Between Worlds.
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#6 Mr Moo

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 17:09

I may have to replay book 5 to be sure, but I seem to recall that he walks through with Zoe? We see Zoe walking through the shift many times.

 

What, if I may ask, is the issue with Ferdows using a shift held up by Saga? Zoe can use it just fine, and she certainly doesn't have any shifting ability. Saga even says it would probably work fine ... :P



#7 Vainamoinen

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 17:27

Like what was the relationship of Saga and April. Till the end I thought April was reborn as Saga, but that was later told to be false.


Whoever told you that was false hasn't eaten wisdom with the big spoon as well. There is indeed some form of reincarnation going on, though it isn't necessarily described by one of our precious religions. Old Saga explicitly says she's experienced April's story through her own eyes; however I try to wrap my mind around it, it always comes out as some kind of rebirth.
 
 

If that's the case, what compelled Saga to revive Crow?

I'm not sure that's exactly what she did. I am, however, convinced that she immediately recognized him, as she had drawn him and his stories 28 years prior already.

 

How did Ferdows pass through the portal created by Saga? A plot hole? Or am I missing something?

 
The red is on point, we really don't have all the facts. But Saga is not a Shifter. She never uses the term until asked. The portals Saga opens follow 'Songlines'.
 
The Shift is the bike, the Songlines are the train: You get everywhere within a short distance on the bike, while the songlines travel throughout the entire multiverse but only stop on certain stations. And you can take anyone with you for a ride in the train, but no other person fits on your bike. :P



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#8 TheDreamfallen

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 17:33

Whoever told you that was false hasn't eaten wisdom with the big spoon as well. There is indeed some form of reincarnation going on, though it isn't necessarily described by one of our precious religions. Old Saga explicitly says she's experienced April's story through her own eyes; however I try to wrap my mind around it, it always comes out as some kind of rebirth.


I'm not sure that's exactly what she did. I am, however, convinced that she immediately recognized him, as she had drawn him and his stories 28 years prior already.



The red is on point, we really don't have all the facts. But Saga is not a Shifter. She never uses the term until asked. The portals Saga opens follow 'Songlines'.

The Shift is the bike, the Songlines are the train: You get everywhere within a short distance on the bike, while the songlines travel throughout the entire multiverse but only stop on certain stations. And you can take anyone with you for a ride in the train, but no other person fits on your bike. :P

I really like that analogy. Along with the other about the difference between a painting and music.

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#9 the red of the kin

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 17:35

What, if I may ask, is the issue with Ferdows using a shift held up by Saga? Zoe can use it just fine, and she certainly doesn't have any shifting ability. Saga even says it would probably work fine ... :P

 

the "issue" would be theoretically only a shifter can shift through his/her own portals


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#10 TheDreamfallen

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 17:56

Either
1. They forgot or abandoned the rule that only shifters can use their own shift.
2. The rule only applies to certain people, like Brian possessed and Cortez, a dragon but not "ordinary" (unmagical) people.
3. Saga isn't a shifter, her portal is not a shift.

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April's dead.

 

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#11 Mr Moo

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 18:11

the "issue" would be theoretically only a shifter can shift through his/her own portals

 

There could be a lot of reasons why Vestrum Tobias (or was it someone else) said so. Someone reading, writing or saying something doesn't make it an absolute truth. It's quite evident that what was told isn't always true.

 

Also, Saga says she isn't a shifter, whatever that would mean. She's clearly able to open and maintain a shift for a really long time. Might be because it was foretold that she would do it, so she knows she will succeed at it.



#12 Kari2

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 18:48

There could be a lot of reasons why Vestrum Tobias (or was it someone else) said so. Someone reading, writing or saying something doesn't make it an absolute truth. It's quite evident that what was told isn't always true.

 

Also, Saga says she isn't a shifter, whatever that would mean. She's clearly able to open and maintain a shift for a really long time. Might be because it was foretold that she would do it, so she knows she will succeed at it.

 

Saga said that it was not a shift, but something else. That is probably why they did not have to pass through Story Time.


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#13 Tamahome

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 18:58

I was under the impression that Saga can open shifts in the same manner as April did, it's just that it's not her preferred way of travelling, as she said before she can make her own paths. Songlines also from what I gathered are something set in stone, they appear in certain places at certain times and have a set destination (See Saga talking about a songline passing through HoAW, the bricked door too), and they can be opened by using a tune or music (as per Saga's comments about the guitar) 

 

@Kari2 - Saga explicitly says that it is a shift to quote Saga on the portal between stark and arcadia "It's called a shift" Zoe states Saga is a shifter "Not really, I usually walk Paths that are already open". 

 

I think the simple answer here is that Saga doesn't consider herself a shifter because she rarely uses the ability, but she does have the ability to create a shift, much more proficient than April who was a shifter.

 

When April travelled to HoAW in TLJ and at the end of DFC it was a songline that was passing through that specific time and space, opened by Saga.


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#14 Vanya-illin

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 19:04

Either
1. They forgot or abandoned the rule that only shifters can use their own shift.

In TLJ, Brian did not say that he couldn't enter April's Shift ... he just said that the consequences would be very very bad for him.


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#15 the red of the kin

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 19:18

There could be a lot of reasons why Vestrum Tobias (or was it someone else) said so. Someone reading, writing or saying something doesn't make it an absolute truth. It's quite evident that what was told isn't always true.

 

hehehehehehehe in which case.....all of DF and DFC might be a lie as well......hmmmmm...APRIL! APRIL! APRIL! 


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#16 Mr Moo

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 21:48

In TLJ, Brian did not say that he couldn't enter April's Shift ... he just said that the consequences would be very very bad for him.

 

Not to mention, if a shift closes while someone passes through, they would be very much dead. And unless they lead somewhere safe ... It's a safe rule teaching not to let others through. :)



#17 Miral

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 22:53

Brian and Tobias both said that someone other than the Shifter trying to use a Shift would result in them being lost between the worlds.  The assumption is that they'd "fall out" at some point and land in Storytime.

 

Because that's the other key difference between what Saga creates and what we normally know of as a Shift -- all other Shifts that we've seen have been a tunnel (that we're told "passes through the world of dreams", ie. Storytime).

 

Saga's is not a tunnel, it's a simple doorway or window directly from one place to the other.  And it's a lot bigger than all the other Shifts we've seen too.

 

Now, this doesn't necessarily mean that it's not a Shift -- perhaps Saga just has better control over her powers than most Shifters and she can make something more advanced.  Certainly most Shifters didn't grow up outside of the normal universe nor know how to travel Songlines; that could be a part of it.

 

On the other hand, both Brian and Tobias got their information from Cortez.  It's possible that he misled them in order to discourage travel between worlds (since that would disrupt the Balance if too many people did it).  Perhaps when April first travelled to Arcadia, it wasn't Cortez channeling April's own power (as he claimed), but Cortez opening a Shift on his own and pushing April through it.  There have also been a couple of occasions when Crow has travelled through a Shift created by someone else, which might support this idea.  The hole in this theory is that there are other Shifters in the worlds (even if we don't meet them), and you'd think that at least one of them would have had someone willing to experiment.


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#18 Sophia

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 00:08

I think that Saga is Ragnar in drag. (s)he knows everything about April and how the story goes because (s)he wrote it that way :P
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#19 DarkPerson

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 05:20

 I believe that the shift that Saga opened near the end was different than normal shifts. The merger was already happening, and the reality was already quite weakened. Plus in TLJ April summoned Crow with music, so maybe that rule isn't actually true?

As for Brian, I am not even sure if what monks did had anything to do with a shift.  Maybe they only transferred his mind in a deep meditation? We never saw his body vanish.


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#20 the red of the kin

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 08:20

The first portal Saga ever opens (puzzle with drawings) gives you a "first shift" achievement. That indicates she opens shifts. Are they different than April's shifts? The game is unclear about this. I guess I'll never understand it.


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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Ferdows, Shift, Brain Westhouse, Undreaming, Saga, April, Ryan

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