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The Villains of Dreamfall Chapters


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#21 WorldsReunited

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 12:38

Don't have a lot of time today to comment on everything, but...

 

I don't understand how Brian and Helena could have collaborated, but it seems they must have done, since Helena recognises him and says he betrayed her.

 

I had the feeling during this scene that it wasn't Helena and Brian talking. I actually thought it was just the Undreaming and that there was actually nothing left of Brian at that point. During the conversation between Zoe and Gabriel there is also a line that says that 'what came through wasn't human'. 


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#22 wedfvbghy

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 12:59

True, but even Cortez could only communicate with Brian across the Divide via a pocket watch. Brian is from the 20th century, so there's no way he could have met Chang before he crossed the Divide.

 

Undreaming, having some access to the underlying substance of reality, could change the rules for Brian. And we'll never know how much or how exactly.

 

It's also possible that the Prophet has not visited his Jiva/WATI allies personally. Some other communication device could survive the Collapse in Stark, made by, for example, Church of Voltec. When Peaves and Chang researched ways to manipulate reality, they looked into Voltec heritage and found it. They could even be connected to the Church; Chang could be a member in her youth, and Peaves could have business ties with Malkuth Technologies Incorporated. But that's also a speculation that's unlikely to be confirmed or denied.


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#23 WorldsReunited

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 13:02

Some other communication device could survive the Collapse in Stark, made by, for example, Church of Voltec.

 

The thing in the office of Scientific Research did remind me of TLJ's Warrior Shifters.


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#24 Barentity

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 13:45

I had the feeling during this scene that it wasn't Helena and Brian talking. I actually thought it was just the Undreaming and that there was actually nothing left of Brian at that point. During the conversation between Zoe and Gabriel there is also a line that says that 'what came through wasn't human'. 

 

Yeah, I think you're right here. Because Brian's voice is different, and then he goes on to say "Existence is an accident". So basically, the Undreaming was playing them all for fools, all along. The Undreaming wanted to destroy everything. Brian and Chang wanted to manipulate the Undreaming to control reality, but there was no way that they could control such a powerful and dangerous force. "Did you think I would let you play God?"


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#25 Pawlo_86

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 13:52

Yeah, I think you're right here. Because Brian's voice is different, and then he goes on to say "Existence is an accident". So basically, the Undreaming was playing them all for fools, all along. The Undreaming wanted to destroy everything. Brian and Chang wanted to manipulate the Undreaming to control reality, but there was no way that they could control such a powerful and dangerous force. "Did you think I would let you play God?"


Good ideas but it was Brian who helped Zoe to find Lux and save The Dream. Brian didn't want to destroy universe. His goal was reunification of Stark and Arcadia. Undreaming was a device for destruction of Magic (i believe that Azadi Goddesss is both Lux and Undreaming, hard to explain). I believe that our loved Kin from TLJ was true mastermind who manipulated Brian and Helena lke he manipulated April in TLJ.

#26 khh

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 11:33

But shouldn't the real unification not lead back the the old earth, where both magic and science co-exited? What Brian wanted is something different altogether.

Brian didn't only want to reunite the worlds, though, he wanted to eradicate magic first. That would not lead back to a world where magic and science co-existed (and it's probably also break the cosmos). 

True, but even Cortez could only communicate with Brian across the Divide via a pocket watch. Brian is from the 20th century, so there's no way he could have met Chang before he crossed the Divide.

Cortez did meet Vestrum Tobias when he was only an Istrum, and Tobias was no Shifter. So I think Cortez had powers of which we were unaware.
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#27 Pawlo_86

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 14:16

I still think that it was Brian who killed Vestrum Tobias in TLJ and Brian was behind Azadi's arrival in Marcuria.
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#28 Tamahome

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 16:37

Brian didn't only want to reunite the worlds, though, he wanted to eradicate magic first. That would not lead back to a world where magic and science co-existed (and it's probably also break the cosmos). 

Cortez did meet Vestrum Tobias when he was only an Istrum, and Tobias was no Shifter. So I think Cortez had powers of which we were unaware.

 

To be honest I think we can make an educated guess now on how Cortez met Vestrum Tobias as an Instrum and also how he knew what was happening in Arcadia: Songlines. We know they not only go to different places but also different points in time, Cortez could have travelled through them and/or listened to them to find out what was going on. Saga was a Shifter (probably better than April too, considering she was able to have other people pass through unharmed) but it seems that she prefers travelling along on the Songlines, it also seems that all you have to do is know how to open one up by singing/music and it opens up. There are now 3 ways to travel across the divide: Shfit (Pass through Storytime), Songlines (No Storytime but only specific time and place), the ritual (passes through storytime).


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#29 MisterMetropolis

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 17:10

Songlines makes me think of how April brought Crow to the Guardian's Realm with the flute...


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#30 Ringtail

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 20:28

Songlines makes me think of how April brought Crow to the Guardian's Realm with the flute...


Whoa...that may very well be true. Or if it wasn't originally intended that way in TLJ, it's a really happy accident!
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#31 Pawlo_86

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 06:50

I must mention Hileriss. I hate this man so much. Because of what he said. Because he blocked my way second time. He was very annoying. Typical black character. While i had some mercy feelings regarding Brian, Helena, even Sister Vilma, i feel despise to Onor Hileriss.
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#32 DarkPerson

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 07:08

 I see that this is not mentioned so, I will mention it. When Prophet entered the well of dreams he somehow vanished. Maybe he was traveling between the worlds already? Or maybe he has projection powers similar to Zoe.


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#33 ANOVA

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 12:26

 I see that this is not mentioned so, I will mention it. When Prophet entered the well of dreams he somehow vanished. Maybe he was traveling between the worlds already? Or maybe he has projection powers similar to Zoe.

 

The only one we know that actually has the "power" to project herself is Zöe. And she can do it because she is a dreamer.

 

Brian is just a guy who shifted (although not a shifter) from stark to arcadia in the early XX century after some decades in storytime (a couple of days in arcadia/stark apparently) and he became a sort of Darth Vader thanks to the undreaming. I don't think he has any power by himself at all.



#34 Sarah_Stark

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 13:36

The only one we know that actually has the "power" to project herself is Zöe. And she can do it because she is a dreamer.

 

Brian is just a guy who shifted (although not a shifter) from stark to arcadia in the early XX century after some decades in storytime (a couple of days in arcadia/stark apparently) and he became a sort of Darth Vader thanks to the undreaming. I don't think he has any power by himself at all.

 

I'm guessing by that comment, you've not played TLJ or Dreamfall: TLJ. Brian went through the divide in the early 1930s and was trapped there for around 200 years. I think it's actually more that 200 years passed for everyone else, but only hours or days for him until he and the Undreaming joined. None of the games give explicit answers to how long into his time in the divide before the Undreaming - though it appears to be instantly. We do know he is aware that a very long time has passed, but how he came upon that knowledge is unknown, as is how long he perceived himself to be in the Divide.

 

Though he was once a normal man, we've no way to know what he truly became. I suspect it was being trapped there that drove him insane - as well as dealing with the Undreaming, of course.


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I could of course be very wrong.


#35 Shifterdreamer

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 13:48

Songlines makes me think of how April brought Crow to the Guardian's Realm with the flute...

 

XWOuu8G.gif


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#36 TheDreamfallen

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 16:35

There seem to be at least three different fundamental oppositions / binaries in the TLJ cosmology, with Balance between all of them:

  • Magic versus science / Chaos versus order
  • Light versus darkness / Lux versus Nox(Yaga) / Light versus Shadow / Dream versus Nightmare
  • Dream versus Undream / Creation versus Destruction / Life versus Death

None of them are evil or good in themselves, rather the Balance between each opposition is good and imbalance is bad.

 

Brian's motivation is a little bit unclear to me, since near the end he says he'll be able to go home finally, as if that's what he really wanted. Although Chang says roughly how she wants to reshape reality, Brian doesn't mention that. This links into Cortez's motivation. It sounded like Cortez and the monks knew what they were doing. But I'm not entirely sure what they wanted to achieve.

 

Probably best not to worry about the precise timing of the project completion. It's just to show us that the two projects are connected I think.

 

My theory about the monks: They are Buddhist. A fundamental principle of Buddhism is that there is no duality. Everything is one. Yin-Yang refers to dualities being one--two sides of a coin. They may look different depending on how you look at them but they are "one thing", and you can't have one without the other. The worlds are like this, Stark and Arcadia. Science and magic. Dream and Undream. They are distinct things, when viewed separately, but truly they are both necessary and coexist. The monks knew and understood this in some way, and in order to reunify the worlds, and the two dualities, they sent Brian to the Storytime, knowing that it would somehow lead to the reunification of the worlds, and the bringing together of Dream and Undream.


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April's dead.

 

My blog, (including reviews on DFC and other games and tech): https://gexpblog.wor.../tag/dreamfall/


#37 ANOVA

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 19:40

I'm guessing by that comment, you've not played TLJ or Dreamfall: TLJ. Brian went through the divide in the early 1930s and was trapped there for around 200 years. I think it's actually more that 200 years passed for everyone else, but only hours or days for him until he and the Undreaming joined. None of the games give explicit answers to how long into his time in the divide before the Undreaming - though it appears to be instantly. We do know he is aware that a very long time has passed, but how he came upon that knowledge is unknown, as is how long he perceived himself to be in the Divide.

 

Though he was once a normal man, we've no way to know what he truly became. I suspect it was being trapped there that drove him insane - as well as dealing with the Undreaming, of course.

 

I did play both TLJ and DF but you're completely correct I switched times in my coment sorry.

 

But still, those powers are given to him by the undreaming (or at least that's what we suppose from book 5). I don't think he develops all those powers from any other source althought it may be possible.

 

Actually, in TLJ Brian appears to be a normal man, friend of Chavez, trapped in Arcadia who is unable to come back to Stark. And still that same man has passed through all those things we saw in the sequels: Travelling to the Tibet, being saved by Cortez, teleporting to the divide and being "attacked" by the Undreaming. And I don't know if that's beacause the RTG team didn't know yet what to do with Brian or because he was fighting against the undreaming but still was not possessed by it.

 

I have to say too that I played both TLJ and DF a long time ago, so there is a lot of stuff i don't remeber from those games let alone specific words from some of the characters that may, and probably are, really important. 


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#38 DarkPerson

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 21:19

The only one we know that actually has the "power" to project herself is Zöe. And she can do it because she is a dreamer.

 

Brian is just a guy who shifted (although not a shifter) from stark to arcadia in the early XX century after some decades in storytime (a couple of days in arcadia/stark apparently) and he became a sort of Darth Vader thanks to the undreaming. I don't think he has any power by himself at all.

 

 Then how did he dissappear?



#39 Kianismybae

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 21:41

 Then how did he dissappear?

I think although  mostly of undreaming was inside Klacks there is a part in Brian  and this tiny part can be controlled.  But he can use a part of an allmighty entity so... I think Undreaming can create thing too...  Destruction/Creation is  united.  For me a  considered destructive thing  can create too






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