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Book Five - Burst out your feelings


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#201 toremygg

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Posted 26 June 2016 - 10:44

I've only played once, so I'm not sure, but was "prophecy" explicitly mentioned? I thought Saga said it was what was written? And instantly thought that Etta wrote it...

#202 Dmm

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Posted 26 June 2016 - 12:30

I guess we'll see the idea of Saga being "Deus Ex Machina" floating around in forums for decades to come. And it's probably not far off the mark, because she does come to Kian's miraculous rescue out of the blue. However, her major achievement afterwards is opening a portal for the actual protagonists to plan their next steps. As I've said elsewhere, while her contribution is crucial, she's an enabler, not the hero of the story. She's the Yoda of the story, not the Luke, not the Han. Which makes the bit of possibly undeniable deus ex quite bearable to me. :)

 

I think we have to consider that Saga being April reborn is subconsciously being influenced by her past life as April. To me what Saga did is not so much prophecy or it was written, but carrying out what April would have done if she had lived. It only appeared to Saga's conscious mind as something predetermined because she sensed a connection to April but did not understand it.

 

April in Dreamfall refused to get involved when Zoe asked her to help. Her excuses being several why she couldn't or wouldn't help, but deep down she knew Zoe was right.

 

Let's say April survived and did not die, being reborn along the lines of Kian. Then she would have went with Kian to the well of dreams instead of or in addition to Crow. The events occurring there would have played out somewhat differently than they did and April would have been the one to ensure Kian's survival.

 

Her being reborn would have allowed her to get her shifting abilities back. It could be that her ability of shifting would have become more powerful so she would have been the one to open the portal for Ferdow.


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#203 vToMy

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Posted 26 June 2016 - 22:37

I think we have to consider that Saga being April reborn is subconsciously being influenced by her past life as April. To me what Saga did is not so much prophecy or it was written, but carrying out what April would have done if she had lived. It only appeared to Saga's conscious mind as something predetermined because she sensed a connection to April but did not understand it.

 

April in Dreamfall refused to get involved when Zoe asked her to help. Her excuses being several why she couldn't or wouldn't help, but deep down she knew Zoe was right.

 

Let's say April survived and did not die, being reborn along the lines of Kian. Then she would have went with Kian to the well of dreams instead of or in addition to Crow. The events occurring there would have played out somewhat differently than they did and April would have been the one to ensure Kian's survival.

 

Her being reborn would have allowed her to get her shifting abilities back. It could be that her ability of shifting would have become more powerful so she would have been the one to open the portal for Ferdow.

 

I really like that way of thinking.

I often tend to look at fantasy stories the same way - like when there're dragons I imagine them as F16 (well, not TLJ dragons ofc, maybe more like GOT).

I've always seen fantasy/sci-fi as a a device to make you think you're in an unfamiliar territory, when in reality interactions between humans are the same everywhere - so you can get an unbiased viewpoint.

In that regard viewing Saga as "April survived" is a device to add magic to the story.

It only works as long as you can find a parallel plausible non-magical way for things to work out though (I mostly tend to like magic which has such a counterpart).

So it begs the question - why bother with magic if you could do without? Well, as Cortez said:

Magic is not knowing, magic is wondering about what and how and where.

And it certainly adds to the mystery! There is no certainty to this viewpoint.


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#204 strom-z

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 03:49

I finished E5 yesterday and could write tons of stuff but anywho, just one remark for now:

 

No matter the cliffhanger, Dreamfall had definitely one of the strongest endings of any game I've played, and it was also a game that left me constantly wondering, loved its pace and the fact that it had almost zero gameplay I just didn't mind almost at all because the story-telling was so good.

 

Here my feelings are much more mixed, chaotic... The epilogue was great. But as someone pointed out here, where I actually cried in the end of Dreamfall with the amazing Zoe/Faith scene, I ended up partly.. indifferent to a lot of this. A part of me was still excited but.. I actually didn't care about things like Crow dying tbh.  


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#205 KraTe

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 16:51

Just closed a nice journey with weird emotions Biggest was damn why the last ep. wasn't longer!!

I started this journey 17 Years ago!! I was only a boy then who falled for April and now I can't say much I beg for update how are things going with couples in there  :blush:


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#206 Atrus

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 14:52

I finished Book Five yesterday and I feel... meh?

 

As a game, there were so many cutscenes that it almost felt like a movie. When we could move, the "puzzles" were so weak and the game world so empty that I wondered why they even bothered. And I really didn't feel that our choices

 

Plot elements either felt rushed or unexplained. Not just all the things from TLJ and Dreamfall that they dropped to make DFC more accessible to new players, but also stuff that was introduced in DFC as well.

Like many, I am confused by the Undreaming. Right at the start of Dreamfall it was introduced as the greatest threat, but here it's reduced to being put to sleep by Lux in a cutscene before it can even do anything... since the rest of the plan was concocted by Brian and Helena.

 

Zoe was incredibly passive/reactive throughout most of the story, but she takes the cake in this book. Her role as a player-led character is to move from room A to room B inside the same building. If she had woken from the fake bedroom and found herself already inside the pod nothing would have changed from a narrative point. All her playable scenes felt like they were padding, and were there just to try and give her as much screen time as Kian.

I also seem to be in a minority here, at least from the posts I read, in that I liked Dreamfall!Zoe a whole lot, but I had a really hard time adjusting to her new face, voice, and personality in DFC. Just when I was starting to warm up to her, she stops doing stuff. All the things Saga does in the last act, they could've been done by Zoe if she only bothered to use her Dreamer powers, and it would have been more interesting and rewarding from a player's point.

 

Which brings me to the game's biggest problem: April and Saga... and sorry, I can't stand what they did with either.

April is dead. And saved. And reborn. But still dead. And she is Saga. But she isn't Saga, or Saga is not April. The game seems to want us to believe both at the same time. That she's not April, so that they can stick to April's death and introduce their new shiny character. That she is April, so that they can justify giving so much screen time to a new character that wasn't really needed.

To me, Saga's an uninteresting character because we only get to see her before or after all her adventures. I kept hoping all the parallels between her and April (missing mother, abusive/possessive father, fleeing home to find themselves...) would pan out in some sort of personality emergence, but no. Even the scene in the HOAW at the end felt flat. Why should I feel for their meeting, when so much game time is spent saying she is not April and she doesn't even understand what their connection is?

So in the end April becomes a sad echo in Storytime, and Saga doesn't seem to have the same 'soul' as April despite their connection. Bah.

 

Don't misunderstand me. DFC had its fun and engaging moments, and I do not regret being a backer back then... but I also did not have any particular "woah" or crowning moments. I'm not sure I'll ever replay it again to see the other branching paths, or to see if I missed out on things. Maybe when the complete edition comes out.


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#207 MailMan

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 19:48

Damn you, Ragnar and Dag.

 

Damn you for reducing a grown man to tears in front of his - luckily, empathic - girlfriend. I still get goosebumps recalling the moment when you hear the rattle on the window in the House of All Worlds. I stopped the game and told my GF that if that's Crow knocking, I will cry. This was the fulfillment of a promise that was made 17 years ago, and the sheer beauty of it staggered me.

 

Did DFC turn out to be a perfect game? No. But hell, all nitpicking aside, this was a satisfying closure! Hats off to everyone at RTG, especially those responsible for the art design and the story. I don't know if it's too much to hope for any continuation of the saga, but after episode 5 I feel that if this is the end for good, I can live with that.

 

I'm not sure if a simple thank you is enough, but that's the best I can churn out even though it's been days since I finished the game.

 

Thank you.


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#208 Thiago Richter

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 22:39

The last Book was... I do not know how to put it, exactly. It destroyed me. But in a good way. Probably.

 

Half way through it, I was completely invested: I was extremely sad, avid for more, excited, depressed, all at once. 

 

Thank you so much, RTG for this. For a moment there, some years ago, I almost lost hope to ever see a continuation for Dreamfall, as I kept digging for info in Ragnar's blog. 

 

I have a lot of feelings going on at the same time right now, but all I really feel like saying is: thank you for the journey. 

 

 

I'll just jump in here and say: thanks for the comments and feedback, reading this reminds me yet again why we're doing this in the first place (it's certainly not for the money or the workload). I've spent so much time the last two days reading tweets and emails and forum posts, and I appreciate both the good things (so, so many good things) and the less good things (plenty of valid feedback, absolutely). It's great to see that few players are dissatisfied, and that most are very happy with how Book Five played out...even though it's mixed with a ton of sadness. (We feel that, too.)

 

So thanks for being engaged and for caring enough to post your thoughts and feelings. Keep them coming, we're reading all of it. And while this game has ended, we've still got the 'complete edition' to come, and there are bits and pieces that were cut along the way that we might stick back in, along with clarifying some of the more confusing things with added text and/or dialogue. We're not going to retcon anything, of course, but with a bit more time on our hands, we hope to bring you the full game the way it was always meant to be.

 

And there are some very cool bits and pieces left on the cutting-room floor...including a whole Queenie dialogue originally meant for Book Five :)

 

Thanks again, folks! I really love this community, and I'm so happy to see the forum back up after days of downtime. (DDoS, maybe? The timing was suspicious, to say the least.)

 

Really REALLY glad to read that Queenie should return for the ending in the complete edition. 

 

I replayed all previous chapters once Book 5 was released to get the complete experience, so I was really excited to see what would come up after she told Zoe they would meet up if they both survived (in Book 3, I believe). She is one of my favourite new characters, and I really missed seeing her there, specially after what she said to Zoe.


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#209 Puggity

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 16:51

I didn't want to play Book 5, because I didn't want the story to end. I did, though. These are characters I love, and even with happy endings for them, I'm in mourning. But many other feelings, too. And not just because it's over. The whole experience had me emotional, from actually laughing out loud to goosebumps to tears. I can't even explain it adequately.



#210 LoCortes

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 17:12

Hello all,

 

I just right now finished Chapter 5. I feel sad and nostalgic already now!  :blink:

 

I think this is the first video game that makes me cry. I've enjoyed lots of video games during all my life, but a long long time ago I started a longest journey that kept me years (literally) searching on the net for news on the closure of the story... finally, Ragnar and Team, you appeared on kickstarter and today I have an end. Probably one of the best stories ever written for an adventure game! I would love a book and a film about all this story.

 

I wanted to thank you for all those dreams, for all those hours living this story, for all those characters that are now part of me (April, Charlie, Cortez, Crow, Zöe, Kian...).

 

Now... I will have to start over again: TLJ, Dreamfall and Chapters... so, I can link all the details I may have not noticed this time and chose other paths on Chapters.

 

Thank you!

 

The balance be with you.

 

Best Regards,

Vicenç

 

P.D.- By the way... great oldie Saga! The voice and tempo of the actress that explains all those memories... together with the music has been the perfect touch to make us feel nostalgia . Great performance.


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#211 multimediator

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 19:48

I finished Book 5 last night and am so sad the journey is over, unless TLJ Home gets made. I'm so grateful for all the amazing work Ragnar and team have done over many, many years.

 

Truthfully, I didn't love Book 5 nearly as much as the other four books in this game. From a player perspective, there wasn't much to do, or any interesting problems to solve, or choices to be made. (For example, making Kian row--yawn!) I was jumping in rapid succession from one cut scene and set of characters to the next, without the immersive satisfaction of getting to stay in a particular environment for awhile. It felt like after months and years of telling a rich and complex multi-strand story, an ending was hastily slapped on, the lights came up, and we were told to go home. Game over!

 

At the very least, I would have loved a summary of critical choices I made throughout the game and how that influenced outcomes, which we got at the end of the first four books. That aspect seemed to get lost in this book.


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#212 Puggity

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 20:07

I'd really like a series of novels. They could even start with a retelling of the games. Or be completely separate. I just want more.

 

 

I've only played once, so I'm not sure, but was "prophecy" explicitly mentioned? I thought Saga said it was what was written? And instantly thought that Etta wrote it...

 

I think it's one of the things deliberately left unexplained.

 

I thought Abnaxus. He has a thing for sending pretty girls on missions he's seen. Or maybe he just has a problem with the past, present and future tenses.


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#213 Starseeker

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 20:46

I'd really like a series of novels. They could even start with a retelling of the games. Or be completely separate. I just want more.

 

Exactly my thoughts while playing through the Epilogue. I'd love to read about April's adventures between TLJ and DF and her spiritual journey through afterlife before being reborn, or about civil war in Azadir and how Kian became the king, or about Saga's many adventures in countless worlds of the multiverse, about the War of the Balance, of course, and about many more things, related to the main plotline or just set in same universe. There's a lot to explore :)

 

I thought Saga said it was what was written? And instantly thought that Etta wrote it...

 

Previously I didn't take seriously that theory about Etta, but have to admit, that thought came to me too.


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#214 Dmm

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 22:26

I thought Saga said it was what was written? And instantly thought that Etta wrote it...

 



#215 cerb998

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 16:26

After finishing DFC I realise that for me it has always been only about April. When I thought that Kian or Zoe were going to die I was ok with it, but I'm still not ok with April's ending. I don't think I can be happy with this story until April gets a happy ending. Not Saga, the real April.


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#216 Teodmar

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 09:28

WARNING, this text is full of SPOILERS
 
When I was in the middle of the Book five, I planned to write: "Bastards! How You dare to kill almost all main characters in the game! First April, now Kian, CROW (unacceptable), Zoe poisoned by gas... " I was confused.
I think this moment and then Saga rescue mission - it was best twist in the game. Good job :)
The hospital room built with memories - another unreal layer and the prospect that all four books was only a dream - that was amazing.
I liked new cyber Zoe and Jiva laboratories, engine in Marcuria, witty dialogues between Crow and Kian, Zoe bilocation.
Thanks for the answers about Zoe origins, Prophet, White Dragon, Roper Klaks, Lady Alvane. Some waited since "The Longest Journey" :)
It was nice to see April and Crow together again. It's good, that their life changes but never ends.
At the end House of All Worlds. Warm, full of memories about a intersting and fulfilled life, with old Saga and her feathered friend :). Her story slowly ends too. Touching.
So, thanks for your work. Saga met April. Dreamfall Chapters met The Longest Journey. The Story is closed. Thanks for all that time spent with You and the game. It was worth it.
I think, that I go back to your trilogy not once.
All the best for U.
 
ps. I'm waiting for The Longest Journey Home and maybe something about Saga adventures in Multiuniverse :)
 

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#217 Snø

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 23:05

NB! So many spoilers!

 

I’ve FINALLY had time to play the final book, and…I still don’t know exactly how to feel about this ending… In some ways, I like it, but there was so much that just didn’t make any sense to me… The whole Brian thing, for one. Was he always meant to be a villain? If I’d only played DF & DFC, then I’d easily accept it, but there’s just nothing in TLJ to indicate that, in my opinion. Except… I do remember Minstrum Yerin telling April that Vestrum Tobias was murdered by someone he knew… Was that part of the evil plot to have the temple knocked down, then? Maybe I just need time to deal with it. I really loved Brian in TLJ. It’s possible I’m just feeling betrayed.

 

Secondly: Roper Klacks. I still have a hard time taking him seriously as a highly adept magician/scientist. His cover in DF is too good. Why have we never seen the tiniest hints of him being anything other than a slightly pathetic piece of comic relief before?

 

And thirdly: April & Crow’s storylines. Unlike everyone else, I didn’t cry when Crow died. I was surprised to find I was actually slightly annoyed. We all saw him with Lady Alvane at the end of TLJ, so how could he possibly be dead? And then he wasn’t, but he was? ANY kind of explanation as to what went on there would be very, very welcome. As for April, just add my name to the list of people wanting to know exactly how Zoë “saved her”.

 

Weirdly enough, I have absolutely no problem with the whole Saga ex machina thing. Nor with the many cut scenes. I loved all of them. And I loved the final scene in THOAW. I’m also thrilled that things turned out so well for the surviving characters! For a while there, I was afraid Ragnar was going full George R.R. Martin on us.

 

I’m going to miss these characters so much! All in all, I guess my main complaint is that it’s all over. 


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#218 Rendref

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Posted 06 July 2016 - 07:30

As for April, just add my name to the list of people wanting to know exactly how Zoë “saved her”.

 

 

 

I think that was discussed many times. Also, April ghost0echo-memory said it herself to Zoe in DF:C. Zoe started the chain of events, that led to meeting of Kian and April, and April, though she didn't want to, started to do some things. However, April was lost after TLJ (even the ending of TLJ shows that perfectly): she left old life and went to a great deal of things, but in the end she was not needed. She felt empty and confused. In DF she fought against Azadi for 10 years now, but there was no end to that fight on the horizon. She did not use her shifting powers for a long time, and then she couldn't. She was broken, and apparently there were no way for her to recharge. In the end, Zoe did help April to die, and thus re-charged April's (now Saga's) shifting powers, the meaning of life, the goals, etc. 

That is not a lousy explanation, in my book. And it is a fact in DF storyline. Reincarnation is a thing in TLJ universe. Well, at least for Dragon related people, but I hope for all.



#219 the red of the kin

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Posted 06 July 2016 - 08:10

That is not a lousy explanation, in my book.

 

It is lousy in my book, since reincarnation doesn't explain anything to me. Even Saga does not remember everything about April and does not feel her..."upgrade" (btw she even sais she's not good at shifting).
April doesn't even go through a catharsis of sort, during her death. She's just murdered in cold blood...no significance of sort.

And yet the question remains: how did Zoe actually "help" her? Zoe didn't kill her herself. Zoe didn't tell Na'ane to bring the Azadi. She just dreamed herself there to witness.
I remember theorizing she was supposed to witness April's death to then "dream her alive" through her dreaming powers but ofcourse that wasn't it.



 


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IF YOU'RE A GHOST.......JUST LEAVE ME BE!


#220 Riaise

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Posted 06 July 2016 - 13:29

Unlike everyone else, I didn’t cry when Crow died. I was surprised to find I was actually slightly annoyed. We all saw him with Lady Alvane at the end of TLJ, so how could he possibly be dead?

 

I felt the same. I was actually quite surprised that so many people seemed to have forgotten the ending of TLJ at that moment. It was the very first thing that I thought of. :mellow:


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