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Book Five - Burst out your feelings


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#181 mattpitt1991

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 14:27

(Sorry to interrupt the conversation, but I do feel the need to ‘burst out my feelings’, even if I’m slightly late to the party.)

 

Fantastic book. Fantastic resolution. Although some have been critical of the (lack of) gameplay, I’m absolutely not bothered by this – like many, I play the series primarily for its expansive storyline. I was, however, concerned after Book 4 that it would be near impossible to answer all the big, recurrent questions in Book 5, but I was thankfully proven wrong.

 

It was utterly delightful to revisit and resolve these plot points from TLJ and DF – and in the most beautiful way (Zoe’s and Crow’s literal walk down Memory Lane). After over a decade of waiting for answers to questions that I assumed Ragnar and co. had forgotten about, it was so rewarding to see everything come together.

 

And, one final admission, two scenes made me cry: Crow’s death by the hands of Brian, and all of the epilogue (I must have listened to every dialogue option in that room twice, the voice actress was just perfect at representing grateful nostalgia, and obviously April’s arrival through the mystery door…).

 

I think I’m running out of superlatives. I know that DFC has had some issues, but this final book (and Book 4, which I also really enjoyed) has really brought up my opinion of the game as a whole, and left me very satisfied. I, of course, would be disappointed if TLJH never came to fruition, but at least this time (unlike with DF) I feel complete at the end of the story.


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#182 TowCat

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 18:42

And, one final admission, two scenes made me cry: Crow’s death by the hands of Brian, and all of the epilogue (I must have listened to every dialogue option in that room twice, the voice actress was just perfect at representing grateful nostalgia, and obviously April’s arrival through the mystery door…).

 

 

Yes, yes, yessss. I craweld through the room like a starved "Fangirl" (this word fits to me in 2000 when i first played TLJ, even it dosn't exist in germany at that time :P ). For every clickable item she says 3 sentences with the eye-symbol and then a few for the hand-symbol, all the while i was looking in her old knowing face, it was awesome and for me the best in book 5  :) 


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#183 TowCat

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 19:10

Not sure about this. Brian was tainted by Undreaming. His mind was poisoned. Even that he transfered Undreaming into Klacks it still could fuck his mind. The very last scene of Prophet put under question idea that Undreaming was controlled/used by Brian. It looks like Undreaming speaking, not Brian. Undreaming said that existence should be never dreamed and now is time to end disased dream.

 

You are right. He had no clue when the monk send him to the other Realm and he landet in DreamWorld. The Monks hide the fact, that he would not travel directly. They both were surprised and then the UnDreaming caches Brian. In retrospect as we know that Lux reunitet with her other side, it feels like the UnDreaming wanted to go on there own path, but it dosn't worked out. To many forces worked against the UnDreaming, most of all Brian. He drank himself in stupor for a long time. He tried, but in the end it needet to be released. He was not the Bad Buddy, he wanted to go home, because for him it felt all wrong that a force controlled him, not the other way around. He was a guy from the beginning of the 20th Century and he was probably broken on top of it.


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#184 Edreamer Jamil

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 22:42

Back now from Hols and completed Book 5 (yay I can browse this forum again without fear of spoilers !).

Yet to play the new prologue - I think I'll wait on that until the Name-TBC Edition is released

 

So full of feels !!

I already held Ragnar in regard as a Master Storyteller but loved how he wrapped up so many loose ends, whilst still leaving us with some fun and tantilising mysteries to discuss, Rose & Alvin for example - loved reading people's speculation here on those two

 

I didn't mind the prolonged cutscenes at the end. I had gaming closure already by that stage but was holding out for at least a few more scenes for the sake of story closure. I felt I got that and so, so much more

 

 

 

One thing I noted - at the start of Chapter 5 (as in several chapter summaries before it) consequences for saving the Warden of Friar's keep were mentioned

Did we ever find out what these consequences were ? Perhaps I missed it...


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#185 Pawlo_86

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 22:45

Warden's fate is releated to fate of Benrime.
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#186 robertc

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 22:49

Warden's fate is releated to fate of Benrime.

 

Do you only find out about that if you return the workman's tools so you can talk to Ulvic about it?



#187 Bruno

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 22:52

Do you only find out about that if you return the workman's tools so you can talk to Ulvic about it?

 

I think you learn about Benrime's fate earlier than that - Book 2, I believe? When you meet Jakai for the first time?


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#188 Pawlo_86

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 22:53

Do you only find out about that if you return the workman's tools so you can talk to Ulvic about it?


I think that Jakai reveals Benrime's fate in Book Two. As for Ulvic, in Book Five he said that Resistance will strike Cold Stone abd they will know if Benrime is still alive. Her final fate is uknown.

#189 Edreamer Jamil

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 23:02

Thanks all for your answers



#190 tybalt_42

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 09:29

After a traumatic few days in the Uk, I'm glad I had DFC to escape to. Thank you.


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#191 the red of the kin

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 10:28

After a traumatic few days in the Uk, I'm glad I had DFC to escape to. Thank you.

 

Good luck, guys...we'll miss you  :unsure: 

(...still going on vacation it Ireland later this summer!)


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#192 the red of the kin

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 10:29

(..) and all of the epilogue (I must have listened to every dialogue option in that room twice, the voice actress was just perfect at representing grateful nostalgia, and obviously April’s arrival through the mystery door…).

 

Oh that scene was soooooo touching! Soooo perfect! One of the best moments I've ever experienced in any story. Thank you RTG!


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#193 charmed23

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 17:14

sigh.
Am I the only one who is baffled that DFC has embarrassingly turned into an exclusively no-gameplay game whose narrative quality is overshadowed by heavy-weight actual adventure games in this crowded market?

It is heart-warming to see fans are keeping themselves busy untangling the (messy) lore and feeling emotionally nostalgic. TLJ series has a dedicated fanbase.

But. Man. What a letdown muddling piece of... interactive snoozefest?

 

For years, I heralded (still to this date actually) Dreamfall as a publicly misunderstood yet wondrous interactive story that needs to be experienced by storytelling-driven souls.

DFC as a successor, though, just demonstrated issues that tainted the storytelling legacy of the series.

Incomplete design choices and incoherent pacing highlighted that RTG bit way more than they could chew, mapping an epic and expanded sequel which, after the credits had rolled, I think should have stayed focused and resources-efficient considering the already much downgraded and limited budget the team had to work with.

 

I'd rather RTG made a short concise film that had served its narrative purpose, instead of this... "game." When this... "game" required me to keep pressing LB on the controller to help Kian *pretentiously* paddling the boat, it really was the straw that broke the camel's back. From the point of such refreshing gameplay mechanics and onward, I was pressing B/X or whichever button to fast-forward the flatlined animations, cut-scenes and *cinematography, to drag myself to the end.
DFC in the beginning felt like a somewhat standalone piece, which seemed to be reconfirmed by the Recap that completely left out the Faith elements, and the introduction of a whole cast of new characters. Yet at the end the story was screaming Faith all over, showing pivotal moments of characters back from Dreamfall, and even neglecting the new cast of characters (mostly in Stark). How the heck can new players even follow it?!
It's like Book 5 should have been at the end of Dreamfall, NOT at the end of DFC.

I'm still getting the PS4 version to re-examine this interactive snoozefest. Hopefully by shifting through it NOT in episodic format, I will get a better sense of what RTG tried to accomplish. Until then, the impression of DFC remains quite broken.

   



 


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#194 Alboma

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 19:51

I finished the game last night.

And so waiting for The Longest Journey Home, if RTG decides to make it happen!

I feel that April and Crow are stuck in the zone and still be alive.

I always know Brian Westhouse is the bad guy. I know the White Dragon was murdered by him. But I forgot how I found out. It was many many years ago playing TLJ. So Book 5 just confirmed it.

In Book 4 I made the choice that not allowing Brian to stay in the house, knowing that he is evil. It looks like it doesn't affect Book 5 outcome, or does it?

Anyway thank you RTG for finishing Dreamfall story.


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#195 Dmm

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 20:01

Ok my final revised review after my second playthrough :
......and at the end I could honestly not understand why the ending became so convoluted, it's like Ragnar wanted to end this story but also setup the longest journey home.

 

Ragnar had just mentioned that TLJH will probably never be made and there was several reasons for that, but he didn't go into what those reasons were. To me the ending  was to give closure to the TLJ saga  and I thought he succeeded. Sure, I would rather have seen TLJH made and if it was a real possibility the ending scenes of this game may have been somewhat different.


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#196 Ramsay Snow

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 20:26

Book Five was like the last season of Lost. It confirms what you've suspected for a long time - that even the writer didn't know where the plot was going when he set up dozens of cliffhangers and mysteries all those years ago. Unlike Lost, I wasn't particularly disappointed, because after a literal railroad of exposition, a green-haired wondergirl Ex Machina, Wheel of Time-escue prophecy-driven plot (a.k.a. stuff that happens for no other reason than because the author decided it should happen), the major villain lacking any real reason for his overly elaborate villainous plot (hello, Lex Lux Luthor from BvS) and Saga blatantly telling Kian "you are going to adopt me and I will take your surname", I kind of stopped caring. The only good moment was seeing Lady Alvane having a conversation with Crow right before April's arrival through the "mysterious and utterly irrelevant door". If only it were the actual April in her old age, and not a counterfeit knock-off copy.


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#197 Vainamoinen

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Posted 26 June 2016 - 00:24

Book Five was like the last season of Lost. It confirms what you've suspected for a long time - that even the writer didn't know where the plot was going when he set up dozens of cliffhangers and mysteries all those years ago.

 

Ahhh, Ramsay! I have to disagree on many points. The plan was definitely there, and you can see how laborious the conclusion became because of it. 25 endings for 25 dangling plot endings. The groundwork for the central Brian/Roper/prophet revelation was definitely in the predecessor already, in 2006!

 

I guess we'll see the idea of Saga being "Deus Ex Machina" floating around in forums for decades to come. And it's probably not far off the mark, because she does come to Kian's miraculous rescue out of the blue. However, her major achievement afterwards is opening a portal for the actual protagonists to plan their next steps. As I've said elsewhere, while her contribution is crucial, she's an enabler, not the hero of the story. She's the Yoda of the story, not the Luke, not the Han. Which makes the bit of possibly undeniable deus ex quite bearable to me. :)


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#198 Ramsay Snow

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Posted 26 June 2016 - 00:54

 

 

The plan was definitely there

In extremely broadstrokes, perhaps, but its execution reminded me of the numerous inconsistencies between the Star Wars Original Trilogy and the horrid Prequels. WATI is completely absent from the finale, Gilmore and her pets never show up, Alvin Peats murder is never explained, "this is not Reza" is reduced to half a sentence of exposition, the Undreaming pops in and out of significance arbitrarily, Zoe saving April is never explained, and Roper Clacks randomly goes from harmless coot to the main villain's right hand (what the hell was he doing selling his book in the Marcuria ghetto, instead of finishing/managing the Engine). Oh, and what was up with that "forgetful" Dark Man in the docks? Why is Mr. Manhattan completely oblivious of the plot to eradicate magic from Arcadia, can he not feel the influx of science and eradication of magic in Marcuria? How did Brian Westhouse kill the Red and Green Dragons, if they're both in Stark, and the Spear of Gorillaman is in Arcadia? 

 

Etc, etc, etc. 

 

 

 

However, her major achievement afterwards is opening a portal for the actual protagonists to plan their next steps

Saving Kian from certain death, opening portals to another world which no one else can do - it's not just the fact that she comes out of nowhere that bothers me, but the fact that her actions are driven solely by "the prophecies say so". Random, off-screen, never explained prophecies. As soon as the plot is being driven by prophecies, you can pretty much throw all logic and reason in the window. A prophecy is nothing more than a lazy shortcut between the current situation, and what the situation needs to be for the plot to be properly resolved. It's like a huge chunk of the narrative missing, and replaced with "the author told me I need to do this". Why bother having Kian join the rebels, help the Mole, save Bip, travel to the deathcamps, rescue Ferdows, etc, when he could simply get a prophecy "go in the basement of the abandoned inn, take the underground passage to the Tower, wait for the Prophet to begin the ritual, and grab the Spear from his hands when a portal opens".


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#199 DarkPerson

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Posted 26 June 2016 - 02:22

 I didn't care much about the prophecies, because it mostly felt like fan service. That shift could have opened either way. I liked the finale with the house of all worlds.

 
 There is only one thing I want to know, how much of the story was written during 2006? Because Lux and Yaga felt like new additions to the story.


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#200 the red of the kin

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Posted 26 June 2016 - 08:27

As soon as the plot is being driven by prophecies, you can pretty much throw all logic and reason in the window. A prophecy is nothing more than a lazy shortcut between the current situation, and what the situation needs to be for the plot to be properly resolved. It's like a huge chunk of the narrative missing, and replaced with "the author told me I need to do this". Why bother having Kian join the rebels, help the Mole, save Bip, travel to the deathcamps, rescue Ferdows, etc, when he could simply get a prophecy "go in the basement of the abandoned inn, take the underground passage to the Tower, wait for the Prophet to begin the ritual, and grab the Spear from his hands when a portal opens".

 

I simply have to agree with you. But I refuse to believe prophecy was used as a shortcut (and Ragnar will surely support me on this). As stated elsewhere I think the problem lies in the way the prophecy concept is conveyed.
I'm willing to accept that there's a character that knows things have to happen in a certain way but there should be a development of this ability through time. Saga character goes from baby to small kid to teenager and all the while there is no clear explanation of what her powers are (except opening shifts and "going for a walk") so in book 5 we're surprised she knows everything because it's been written...and we get to know that info right before she becomes essential to the story. That's the problem right there. That's the reason people will go "how convenient" on the game.
Had we known (example here, not actual story) her mother got lost because she didn't know how to walk the songlines which are in fact stories one must learn to decipher, then in book 5 we could go like "aaaaaah! Saga learned! Cool!". I think the concept only needed a bit more "introduction".


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