35 replies to this topic

[Neurotic]

 Perhaps the corruption extents beyond humanity.

 

I am not one who is into dissertations. I wrote my last on 50 years ago, and I have no intentions of resurrecting it. Many of the associations between the Longest Journey Saga and cultural legacies from oral traditions, exist because they are compelling stories. Maybe Ragnar was inspired by the traditional stories and maybe he was not. I doesn't matter. Certainly he couldn't escape their influence. The associations will inevitably come about because of the way our brains are wired. The question that must be asked regarding the TLG Saga as well as any work of Art is "Does it work?". The answer would be both personal and universal.(archetypal).

In regards to your comment on corruption extending beyond humanity, are you referring to in the TLJ universe or real-life?

As for "does it work?", I'd say it depends on what exactly you mean by that; Art as a whole or specific works of art? 
 

[Kari2]

In regards to your comment on corruption extending beyond humanity, are you referring to in the TLJ universe or real-life?

As for "does it work?", I'd say it depends on what exactly you mean by that; Art as a whole or specific works of art? 
 

 

In regards to corruption, I was referring to the TLJ universe. In real life I associate corruption with value structures and change with the larger picture.

 

Regarding Art. I was referring to individual works of art. By "does it work?" I was asking the question as to whether or not it unlocks our immediate perception of form, color, sound, etc, and opens us to an "experience" both personal and universal similar to the way each of our brains assimilate a myriad of sensory data and create perception - which is both personal and universal.

[Neurotic]

In regards to corruption, I was referring to the TLJ universe. In real life I associate corruption with value structures and change with the larger picture.

 

Regarding Art. I was referring to individual works of art. By "does it work?" I was asking the question as to whether or not it unlocks our immediate perception of form, color, sound, etc, and opens us to an "experience" both personal and universal similar to the way each of our brains assimilate a myriad of sensory data and create perception - which is both personal and universal.

Human corruption does seem to be a commonly explored topic throughout the games; It caused the necessity for the Divide, the stone disc having to be split into four pieces, the Azadi occupation..etc.. It may very well extend beyond humans. If one were to use Jacob McAllen as an example then, sure, appears that it has. But the question is; If Jacob McAllen hadn't embraced the ways of humanity as much as he did, would he still have become corrupt?     

[Lee-m]

 If Jacob McAllen hadn't embraced the ways of humanity as much as he did, would he still have become corrupt?     

I'm not convinced he is/was corrupt, or even all that evil. Yeah he wanted to kill our beloved April (and thus is on the side of evil from the perspective of the first game), but I think its all traced back to a split between the kin. April needed to go in order to put things right (reunite the worlds). There is nothing to say that Cortez and April are in the right, and McAllen was wrong.

 

Just not totally sure corruption is something you can apply to McAllen. Not sure its that simple.

[Neurotic]

I'm not convinced he is/was corrupt, or even all that evil. Yeah he wanted to kill our beloved April (and thus is on the side of evil from the perspective of the first game), but I think its all traced back to a split between the kin. April needed to go in order to put things right (reunite the worlds). There is nothing to say that Cortez and April are in the right, and McAllen was wrong.

 

Just not totally sure corruption is something you can apply to McAllen. Not sure its that simple.

I agree with you in that it's not necessarily Cortez who is right and McAllen that is wrong. It's the way he went about trying to achieve his goals that make him corrupt in my eyes; experimenting on potential guardians and creating warrior shifters, for example..

[Ringtail]

However, if in combination with Storytime, you CAN change a story by retelling it, right? And since a story told in Storytime becomes reality in the worlds, then whoever is telling stories in Storytime has the power over past, present and future. I think that person is Saga, although she doesn't have any ulterior motive behind it, she is simply retelling a story she has heard then making it her own.

 

We don't really know how Lux, Storytime, and Zoe's power to "dream things true" work yet. Lux, for example, is supposedly dreaming all of reality, but s/he is physically in Arcadia, not in Storytime.

 

But yeah, I agree with one of the themes in TLJ and DF being "stories about stories", and I wouldn't be too surprised if Zoe dreaming a new reality (or at least some new/changed elements) were part of the endgame of DFC.

[Pawlo_86]

Love it! Book Four is the most April-themed and it directly ties to TLJ. Love Crow's reaction abd feelings about April's death.

[Neurotic]

Love it! Book Four is the most April-themed and it directly ties to TLJ. Love Crow's reaction abd feelings about April's death.

Poor Crow, though.. First he learns that April is no more, then he is left behind in the Border Mountains a second time, this time by Zoe, who also said that they'll probably never meet again.    

[Dhraiden]

Crow will be fine : ) My hunch is he'll soon have another female protagonist to play sidekick to

 

Interesting remarks on corruption. It's often tied to ambition, and pride. I'm wondering whether the reunification of the two worlds would necessarily be such a bad thing at all..it's just they way parties like Jacob or the Azadi want to go about doing it, that's at fault.

[the red of the kin]

Just not totally sure corruption is something you can apply to McAllen. Not sure its that simple.

 

I think caos was the key element in TLJ and Jacob. It seems to me corruption is more related to the dreamer's cycle, actually.

[the red of the kin]

The question that must be asked regarding the TLG Saga as well as any work of Art is "Does it work?". 

 

We have an interesting concept here. 

In general I agree with this statement. But while music, videogames and movies are more concerned with the masses and can all be replicated, not all hand-crafter art can. So a painting can be owned by onl one person. Therefore all the world can hate a painting but if that one person likes it, it "worked"...well I guess it worked if the artist is satisfied with it being like by only one person

and "Does it work" not only means "does its story work" but a lot more, surely!
Does it keep me entertained?
Does it make me think?
Does it make me believe in the protagonist?
Is it difficult at the right level?
Does it flow right?

and so on. 

[Abnoxious]

Anyone else noticed the contrast between this book and previous ones?

When I played through books 1-3 all I've been thinking about was "what about April?" There were no mentions, no conversations, nothing (don't catch me up here--at least nothing as serious as this topic demands).

I wasn't sure if it was on purpose until this book. Book 4 was like a "feels"-dam breaking and pouring everything that's April. Suddenly we talked about her - she mattered.

To top it all, Zoe's adventure through Arcadia was analogues to the one April had in TLJ.

I mean, CROW! Meeting with Roper Klacks, and Zoe facing the babayaga was very reminiscent of April in the cave - facing your fears/wrong doing.

Holding back for the previous books really made an impact. I felt it was a good closure - one I've been waiting for for along time.

 

I can totally see where you are coming from, and as I look back more on how I felt playing Chapters, although the themes are so complicated and complexly interweaving, I found the one constant was in how the structure reflects more and more upon the Kubler-Ross grief cycle in terms of how we think about April. The way the characters react to situations and how I responded to game events just seem to perpetuate these stages the more I think about it.

[MisterMetropolis]

Another thing to consider is the reason why Odin only has one eye; he placed it as a sacrifice so he could drink from Mimir's well and gain knowledge. In order for it to be an actual sacrifice, it couldn't be something that he could pluck out while shapeshifted. It had to be his REAL eye from his original form.

 

 

 

Reminds me of Crow drinking from the Well of Making. Well, he didn't drink it, but he put it in his mouth.

[Starseeker]

Those were introduced after TLJ, and TLJ has much more of a Norse Pagan feel to it

 

I had the same feeling. Northlands and April's part of the story certainly are influenced by Norse mythology. April's clothes in the second game look a lot like the ones vikings wore, her funeral is organized in the same way they sent their heroes to the afterlife, her fighting against Azadi with their monotheism reminds of vikings fighting against Chritianization, the symbol of Balance slightly resembles the tree of life symbol... Then Etta comes from Midgard which is a pretty obvious reference. (By the way, anyone else considered it may be the two worlds combined before or after the Divide?) Also, Lettoch is mentioned which is in Scotland, so Northlands again. And the Yaga is somewhat similar to the three main Norns. Also about Saga, someone mentioned it earlier, but it may also fit well in your theory: https://en.wikipedia...and_Sökkvabekkr

 

So while I'm not sure that's how things were meant to be in the game, I like your theory a lot, because it works well (combined with what you've written in other threads) and it suits my perception of the story to some extent.

 

By the way, you've mentioned in other thread that Azadi Goddess might be the White Kin, and I do agree with it.

Reasons:

1. The Goddess is definitely a female, which rules out Lux, because Lux is genderless (unless of course at the beginning of times Lux was one with Zoe and the Goddess is Zoe)

2. The sisters have something like image of a dragon on their belts (can be seen here: https://youtu.be/rO5...dbM?t=1h56m59s at 1:56:59, also just noticed that Vamon has some runes on his clothes, which is so strange, because where're Azadi and where're the runes..)

3. In their religion The First Mountain is mentioned which may be the Mount Tireney (or, if the Goddess is Lux may be it's the cloud peak)

4. Kian's mother mentioned Amah in his dream, which means mother in several languages, and the White Dragon IS mother.

 

Of course may be their Goddess is just some abstract deity and has no relation to any characters.

[Tamahome]

I had the same feeling. Northlands and April's part of the story certainly are influenced by Norse mythology. April's clothes in the second game look a lot like the ones vikings wore, her funeral is organized in the same way they sent their heroes to the afterlife, her fighting against Azadi with their monotheism reminds of vikings fighting against Chritianization, the symbol of Balance slightly resembles the tree of life symbol... Then Etta comes from Midgard which is a pretty obvious reference. (By the way, anyone else considered it may be the two worlds combined before or after the Divide?) Also, Lettoch is mentioned which is in Scotland, so Northlands again. And the Yaga is somewhat similar to the three main Norns. Also about Saga, someone mentioned it earlier, but it may also fit well in your theory: https://en.wikipedia...and_Sökkvabekkr

 

 

Interesting thought about Midgard being pre-divide Earth, never thought about it that way but it sort of makes sense. Consulting wikipedia (terrible source but oh well) " Midgard is surrounded by a world of water, or ocean, that is impassable. The ocean is inhabited by the great sea serpent Jörmungandr(Miðgarðsormr), who is so huge that he encircles the world entirely, grasping his own tail", that sounds a whole lot like the dragons around the symbol of balance in the Guardian's Tower.

[the red of the kin]

Consulting wikipedia (terrible source but oh well)

 
Since it seems to me you don't hold Wikipedia in high esteem, let me please suggest you some alternatives

 

hope they work out better for you.