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#1 Ragnar

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 09:54

As we start working our way towards the end of our story — sniff — as well as the upcoming console ports and 'complete edition' for existing platforms, we'll be revisiting previous episodes of Dreamfall Chapters. Part of this process is weeding out bugs, part of it (the most important part) is identifying the weak spots and evaluating what, if anything, we can do to improve the not-so-great bits.

 

This is where we'd like your honest, and constructive, feedback.

 

Which part(s) of the game do you like the least? Where would you like to see nips & tucks? Which scenes could be eliminated completely? Which puzzles are too frustrating? What's confusing? Where do the dialogues drag on? This isn't the thread where we seek your affirmation of our genius: this is where you get to tell us "this sucked, plz fix this".

 

It's really important to note that some things are not going to change. Don't like the story or the characters? Tough luck, we're not doing any radical makeovers there. Dislike the politics? Aww, too bad. Feel we should have made a 2D point-and-click adventure? This is not the place to vent your frustrations.

 

We're seeking constructive criticisms from those of you who have played (and enjoyed, at least in parts!) most of the game (books one through three, preferably four as well), feedback that can actually be implemented, fixes and changes that will streamline and improve what's already there, additions that can be realistically done by a small team within an incredibly tight time frame.

 

Simply complaining about core gameplay and story, the direction we've taken with the game and the design choices we've made will result in ignored posts. Offering clear, understandable, friendly feedback that helps us understand where the game could be stronger will result in actual tasks for the team.

 

Got all that? Sure? Any questions? No?

 

Okay. Ready, set…GO.


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#2 bongboy

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 10:26

I know this isn't the place to tell you what you did right, but I know at least a couple people are going to suggest you trim down the number of drawings you have to find in the second interlude. I remember people suggesting you get rid of some of them and I remember you mentioning that you'd be open to it. I'm just going to cut right to the chase and ask you to please not do so. I really love hearing Saga describe the pictures.

 

Now that I have a new computer and a new 4K TV, I'll be replaying books 1-4 soon and I'll be sure to let you know if I notice anything I'd want you to trim, but I've already played through books 1-3 quite a few times now and nothing's ever stood out to me as needing to be trimmed or eliminated altogether.


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#3 Ragnar

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 10:31

I know this isn't the place to tell you what you did right, but I know at least a couple people are going to suggest you trim down the number of drawings you have to find in the second interlude. I remember people suggesting you get rid of some of them and I remember you mentioning that you'd be open to it. I'm just going to cut right to the chase and ask you to please not do so. I really love hearing Saga describe the pictures.

 

We probably won't cut down on the number of drawings, but we will make it less frustrating to find the ones that are there. We don't like seeing people get stuck for an hour in an interlude, so this is definitely on our list.


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#4 Vainamoinen

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 10:34

Not that a 2D p&c Chapters game wouldn't have been incredible. But I'd definitely rather set my hopes on TLJH there. Just make sure you still have Christoffer and Rikke around should that happen one fine day. :mellow:
 
So, no structurally humongous stuff. That means that cutting scenes from the game is probably not a good idea. Off the top of my head –

  • Filters and blurs, as I've often repeated, should have an option to deactivate. That especially applies to the peripheral vision blur, which appears almost all encompassing on non wide screen monitors.
  • If you have any way to still accomplish this, let Simon compose new music for the latter Books. The repetition particularly in emotional scenes was a bit immersion breaking.
  • I always found it a bit irritating when hotspots only became visible/reactive when dialog has ceased, especially in the dreamer 'darkness' sequence. If there's an easy solution for this, I'd like to see it implemented.
  • Starting with Book 2, some scenes have 'forced walking'. I'm aware this was done for reasons of mood, but I still think the choice should be the player's.
  • The "Na'ane info box" looked illegibly microscopic on my last playthrough. Adjustments here would be welcome.
  • If possible, tweak Hanna's character model. She looks like a copy of Abby's, and she's in no way on par with e.g. the brilliant 14 year old Saga in Book 4. Face and hair could be a focus. Also Wonkers key chain. :)
  • The eight recorded "Nela" screams from Zoë at the end of Book 2 are still not implemented (though last time I checked was pre-U5). This should really be done; it was the first bit of criticism a friend of mine offered when she played the scene in October.
  • If it doesn't have that much of a narrative value... Queenie's last scene wasn't too well received judging from what I've seen in forums. Instead of the rocket chair exit, maybe her boat could in fact be seen departing.
  • Yes, I've spent a solid hour looking for Saga's pictures, but I was happy enough being challenged in some way, and there have to be nine pictures! Maybe a solution that could be implemented would be to make the hotspots slightly bigger in that scene, so that the cursor 'snaps in' a good bit earlier and from a farther distance. The scene would be easier to accomplish and I assume you could get this done without effort. 
  • Okay, you probably know this already, but you have to remove a certain picture in that last Interlude. :P

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#5 Indrid Cold

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 10:47

The eight recorded "Nela" screams from Zoë at the end of Book 2 are still not implemented (though last time I checked was pre-U5). This should really be done; it was the first bit of criticism a friend of mine offered when she played the scene in October.

I played that part after Book 4 was released and I think they've been added. I'm not entirely sure because I messed up with the controls at that time so I didn't have time to yell many times, but the 2-3 times I did sounded a bit different.


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#6 mse

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 10:58

I think that the interlude scene with the drawings would be a lesser problem for people who played the complete version, since it being at the beginning of a book made it the more frustrating for them. I maintain that I liked it the way it was, because I loved exploring the house, but as long as the number of drawing remained I suppose that that won't change that much. I maintain that the order of drawing 4 and 5 was either wrong or misleading though.

 

 

Not that a 2D p&c Chapters game wouldn't have been incredible. But I'd definitely rather set my hopes on TLJH there. Just make sure you still have Christoffer and Rikke around should that happen one fine day. :mellow:

 

So, no structurally humongous stuff. That means that cutting scenes from the game is probably not a good idea. Off the top of my head –

 

  1. Filters and blurs, as I've often repeated, should have an option to deactivate. That especially applies to the peripheral vision blur, which appears almost all encompassing on non wide screen monitors.
  2. If you have any way to still accomplish this, let Simon compose new music for the latter Books. The repetition particularly in emotional scenes was a bit immersion breaking.
  3. I always found it a bit irritating when hotspots only became visible/reactive when dialog has ceased, especially in the dreamer 'darkness' sequence. If there's an easy solution for this, I'd like to see it implemented.
  4. Starting with Book 2, some scenes have 'forced walking'. I'm aware this was done for reasons of mood, but I still think the choice should be the player's.
  5. The "Na'ane info box" looked illegibly microscopic on my last playthrough. Adjustments here would be welcome.
  6. If possible, tweak Hanna's character model. She looks like a copy of Abby's, and she's in no way on par with e.g. the brilliant 14 year old Saga in Book 5. Face and hair could be a focus. Also Wonkers key chain. :)
  7. The eight recorded "Nela" screams from Zoë at the end of Book 2 are still not implemented (though last time I checked was pre-U5). This should really be done; it was the first bit of criticism a friend of mine offered when she played the scene in October.
  8. If it doesn't have that much of a narrative value... Queenie's last scene wasn't too well received judging from what I've seen in forums. Instead of the rocket chair exit, maybe her boat could in fact be seen departing.
  9. Yes, I've spent a solid hour looking for Saga's pictures, but I was happy enough being challenged in some way, and there have to be nine pictures! Maybe a solution that could be implemented would be to make the hotspots slightly bigger in that scene, so that the cursor 'snaps in' a good bit earlier and from a farther distance. The scene would be easier to accomplish and I assume you could get this done without effort. 
  10. Okay, you probably know this already, but you have to remove a certain picture in that last Interlude. :P

 

 

I agree with 2. strongly, but I had no problems with the forced walking and the hotspots not activating until certain dialogues were over. I think they are only a nuisance during multiple playthroughs. Maybe an option could be implemented that would make it possible to skip those dialogues.

 

Also, I loved Queenie's exit. I wouldn't want that to change for the world. :)

 

One of my personal complaints were the long uninterrupted cutscenes, especially during Book 3, like the one with Kian and the engineer, or his conversation with the rebels, even Anna. More dialogue options could might help break those scenes up a bit, even if they didn't have any long term consequences.


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#7 toremygg

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 11:01

What I really missed was the little details and the atmospherics. The locations are beautiful and the music lovely, but:

  • I'd like more things for Zoë and Kian to comment on. Love the multi-layered comments for what's there, but too many things are not "discoverable"
  • I'd like more "minor ambient soundscapes", ambient audio that's available in only a small part of a location. Especially in Marcuria. I think there's some, but there could be more. Would make it feel more like a city. Also, more moving NPCs? Even that blonde on her set path from the square in Casablanca would be welcome... ;)
  • Minor annoyance: people dancing to live music in book 4, but no musicians around. ;)
  • A puzzle on the way to the Yaga's hut (which turned out to be a bit of a misnomer...) wouldn't hurt - but perhaps it doesn't fit your pacing?
  • A journal. No TLJ game is complete without a journal. (OK, this may not be necessary, only nostalgia talking)
  • More none-essential interaction with NPCs in Marcuria and Europolis. However, costs, audio recording etc., I know.
  • Do we get to know how Zoë's algae did? I want to know. ;)
    ... more may be added when I think of it.

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#8 Pawlo_86

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 11:05

Since you asked for serious feedback i will share my thoughts about each episode and other aspects of game:

 

Book One - Perfect book. There is nothing to fix. Just add more to Propast like House Of Dreams and Emma's Gallery, Propast should be fully explored and accesed in this book.

 

Book Two - There are too much backtracking and boring moments. This book needs to be more streamlined and intense. All of Propast should be visited in Book One while in Book Two some areas should be closed. Kian part in Chapter "Anamnesis" is the most boring part of Dreamfall Chapters. Nothing really happend.

 

Book Three - Streamlined and intense. Nothing to fix. Maybe i would like to get more serious answers after investigation of pipes network. The ones which i got from Ferdows are confusing. And why Kian doesn't want to tell rebels about result of his investigation? It seems ittle cut off.

 

Book Four. Fantastic journey. Close to be perfect book. I would like to see more exploration in Riverwood. Maybe add more walking in forest. And maybe more in Border Mountains.

 

Interludes - I think that each book should end with Interlude. Interludes are one of the best part of Dreamfall Chapters. Nothing to fix in them.

 

Subttitles - I would like to see subtitles when NPCs are talking.

 

Zoe/Kian thinks during choice - I would like to see an option to turn off Zoe/Kian thinks during choice moments.

 

Key Art for Book Start - I pretty like key arts for each book. Why not add this during start of book?

 

88b5c0448-1.jpg

 

 

dreamfall-chapters-book-two-review-heade

 

 

a2c2160d1edb9d294e8f064a84ab5a31_origina

 

 

12118892_913314812038096_442990302173368

 

Trailer - Maybe add (already released) trailer for every book just after choice screen and before Interlude? Something like "next in Dreamfall Chapters". This should give more TV-series feeling for game.

 

 

That's all for now. Maybe i will post more when i will have more time to think about your ask.


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#9 Magick_Lady

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 11:11

In propast i experienced walking half though walls when walking up stairs . Now in book four i expierenced something simular when trying to run back up stairs quickly i was half under stairs into nothingness ( bit funny but also frustrating when you dont want to be in the nothingness but up there before getting caught or seen by guards in book 4 ) but i am finally in anyway now just finding out how to get in admin office now with kian . For the rest i love the whole story 😍 probably a hugh fan of the april and zoe saga 😄😄😄


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#10 Bruno

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 11:11

I played that part after Book 4 was released and I think they've been added. I'm not entirely sure because I messed up with the controls at that time so I didn't have time to yell many times, but the 2-3 times I did sounded a bit different.

 

Just went back and replayed that part - yes, they are different now :)


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#11 DreamCollision

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 11:14

I'm not sure if this is any helpful, but maybe you can improve the following parts :)

 

I have such low framerates during some parts of the game (Marcuria, Propast, the much smaller locations are often better), however I always managed to continue the game, so it didn't really bother me that much (can't afford a better PC just for DFC :P).

 

BUT in Book 4 those timed puzzles are really hard to solve if the game keeps lagging...

 

although I knew what to do I couldn't enter the Yaga's house for almost an hour, since the time modification doesn't last long enough for me...

Once the Yaga goes down  and Zoe's time modification is running it's unbelievably hard to click on the door, because the slow-mo stops and the house gets up again.

 

I was really frustrated and thought I had to quit the game there until I finally managed to get into that door by luck.

 

The same frustration caught me in Ge'en, when Kian needs to move the statue behind him to let that crazy Azadi lady fall through the floor... Whit the poor framerate you have almost no chance of clicking that statue in time :unsure:. Kian's timed puzzle is not that critical as the Yaga one, but still...

 

Is there any possibility of getting those timed puzzles optimized for people with poor framerates??  Maybe an option to skip them, if you can absolutely not solve them?


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#12 mse

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 11:14

Also, any performance improvements that could be still made would be well-appreciated. I know that I'm at the bottom of the system requirements pool, so frankly, I'm just happy that the game runs on my device, but any further tweaks would be helpful.


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#13 magic88889

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 11:14

I'm not sure where to start.  I'd like to give you a big list of things, but I'd really have to replay the game to get a sense of what worked and didn't work. 

 

That said, I have noticed a number of inconsistencies in the dialogue when choosing different choices.  Like characters would sometimes mention things that either hadn't been discussed yet, or were never discussed because of the choices I made didn't give me that scene where they had that conversation.  I wish I could give you a list, but I'm sure a look at the dialogue would yield positive results here.  As somebody who focuses heavily on the dialogue, this probably bothered me the most.


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#14 CosmicD

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 11:16

In my personal oppinion, the puzzles shouldn't be made easier, because they are already easy enough. 

I only had a problem finding the painting on the top of the ledge in the kitchen. Perhaps if the paintings can pulsate glow a bit, that would make it easier. Or the activation of the interface might be a bit more liberal, so that when you're standing in the corner / at the door of the kitchen it'll kick in and you can look ? But still it would be making things easier. 

THe only puzzle I really needed help with, were finding the the tubes in book 3 "pipes" puzzle. The objective was to to let the messanger core launch from the tube network, but the needed parts for that were a bit spread across the place, and I didn't remember that these tubes were lying near the south gate in book 2 so I didn't make that connection. i obviously missed a crucial bit of information. Or was that a puzzle that was designed to explore marcuria ?

What I really really miss, is a puzzle in front of the yaga. When you arrive there you know it's gonna be a big reveal and a great story telling moment. 

A TLJ equivalent would be the part where you discover the meaning of the wall paintings in the derelict mearum cave. But before you get to consume all that great story bits you have to solve a puzzle. I miss that in front of the yaga. The yaga tells you an essential bit of TLJ lore, but you can just run in front of the house, knock and you're virtually let-in without much opposition and that's why it doesn't feel rewarding there. The story in itself is great but I wish I got it as a reward for solving a puzzle.

Maybe you can do something with the souls lying around there ?

Also a puzzle in the purple mountain area before being lead to abnaxus would be cool. It doesn't have to be en incredibly complex one. Maybe do something involving the guys quickly locking their houses if you walk passt them. dunno, I don't think I have to waste time making puzzle ideas for you guys , you know best what would fit.

The encounter with the yaga is a fantastic script piece. You basicly make half of the level movable and it becomes a dragon. I jumped out of my chair and went to have something to drink when I saw that. It was very action-y :). And so you prove you can do these things.

What always kept bugging me for some reason in this regard, is that when you're in the first interlude and baby-saga asks her mommy (etta) to open the door for her, the screen magicly fades out and in, and poof, the door is open. That is so contrary to what we can witness in book 4, as means of continuous storysets, that I kinda wish you'd just see Etta open the door for her little baby.

I know the implications of this though. Saga could be causing some physics problems, if you're standing in front of the door, etta tries to walk to it and then open it and you block progresss, basicly getting stuck in the game.  But can't this be done with no physics clips, so that you see her opening that door ? I know it's a little detail but it has bugged me for a while. 

In lieu of this, there's also a scene in book 2 which uses the same "trick" to omit having to do animations. (the slaughtering on the old town market). I know only showing the legs has some drama to it , because you can enhance your emotional involvement with things you can't see. But it just looks a bit weird. Maybe all we need there is one quick image of magical face we can identify with when this happens. maybe i'm rambling on but it's these sort of things that sometimes make me think like "oh they did that so they don't have to make animations). So for the ultimate version, these obvious "hacks" should be made a bit more immersive ? WOuldn't that do the game good ?

For the rest, there's quite a few parts where the voice files sound unmastered/normalized, and thus more silent than the others. Now that we have a bug reporting tool, I shoudl play the game once again to listen for any voice file that isn't normalized yet.

Some puzzles are confusing because you're not allowed to do some stuff in the order that you want to. Like for example in the story time "dark tunnel" puzzle, you're not allowed to click on a lamp while someone is speaking. Maybe a first time user can be confused and make the assumption that that what they are doing isn't a great solution and then will look elsewhere. only to find out that when the man stops talking, you can suddenly activate the light.

In book 2, you have this puzzle where you have to blow up the azadi weapon stack, but the only way to activate the puzzle and expose all the crates or carriages you can loot, is to go outside and look at the black powder lying on the pier. I kinda wonder why you can't also find the metal nails and so on, BEFORE you go outside ?

For the rest i'm having a good experience. And it's not like what I describe above is really game breaking or I have huge problems with it. But since you ask if it can be made better, maybe we can discuss these things ?


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#15 bongboy

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 11:17

I think that the interlude scene with the drawings would be a lesser problem for people who played the complete version, since it being at the beginning of a book made it the more frustrating for them. I maintain that I liked it the way it was, because I loved exploring the house, but as long as the number of drawing remained I suppose that that won't change that much. I maintain that the order of drawing 4 and 5 was either wrong or misleading though.

 

You're right about it not being as big of a deal if you're playing through all five books at once, but Ragnar mentioned that some people are getting stuck looking for them for an hour or longer, and that's a big deal no matter how you look at it. I completely agree with you about the order of drawings 4 and 5. I've played through that interlude three times now and every time I've only made one mistake and every time it was getting 4 and 5 backwards. I think it's because April first meets Crow on her way to meet the map merchant, which leads her to meeting Brian Westhouse, but I was thinking of April and Crow meeting in the woods and April giving Crow his name as when they first met. I don't know why that's hardwired in my brain even though I know it's wrong. I must have played through TLJ six times before I played through the second interlude for the first time, so I really don't know what's wrong with me.


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#16 mse

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 11:25

I think it's because April first meets Crow on her way to meet the map merchant, which leads her to meeting Brian Westhouse, but I was thinking of April and Crow meeting in the woods and April giving Crow his name as when they first met. I don't know why that's hardwired in my brain even though I know it's wrong. I must have played through TLJ six times before I played through the second interlude for the first time, so I really don't know what's wrong with me.

 

I think one of the problems with that is that the drawing says that April befriends Crow, so it's perfectly reasonable to think of that moment as the forest scene. The other issue is that we don't even need to interact with Crow before meeting Westhouse, and those interactions are certainly not friendly yet. Maybe Saga remembers the order wrong too. :P


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#17 TalkingOak

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 11:25

I don't know if this is just a problem with lower end computers but is there anyway of fixing the way that sometimes characters will speak without thier mouths moving? It is the only complaint that I have about the game really. :)


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#18 bongboy

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 11:26

In propast i experienced walking half though walls when walking up stairs . Now in book four i expierenced something simular when trying to run back up stairs quickly i was half under stairs into nothingness ( bit funny but also frustrating when you dont want to be in the nothingness but up there before getting caught or seen by guards in book 4 ) but i am finally in anyway now just finding out how to get in admin office now with kian . For the rest i love the whole story probably a hugh fan of the april and zoe saga


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I had a similar problem with the first version of book one. I had an older computer then that was sort of mid-range back in late 2009 and only has 2 GB of system RAM, which is half the minimum requirement. The first version, without a patch, was so hitchy that sometimes it stalled for a half hour before it finally let me move again for a split second. That version had me walking straight forward instead of down stairs so I'd be hovering in mid-air a la Wile E. Coyote, except that I didn't fall when I looked down. I had to backtrack to the top of the stairs, turn around and very slowly make my way down the stairs in order to not end up walking on air. The first patch cleared up all the performance issues I was having, though.



#19 Clairobscur

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 11:27

2. If you have any way to still accomplish this, let Simon compose new music for the latter Books. The repetition particularly in emotional scenes was a bit immersion breaking.

 

8. If it doesn't have that much of a narrative value... Queenie's last scene wasn't too well received judging from what I've seen in forums. Instead of the rocket chair exit, maybe her boat could in fact be seen departing.
 

 

I second that!

 

May I add a few quick things off the top of my head:

 

Appearing in U5 are "raindrops" on the screen when bloom is activated. I like bloom but these drops are really annoying, especially for screen capture. A deactivate option would be most welcome. I cannot tell if it has been fixed in the latest version as my savegames keep not loading up. (I reported this through the in-game tool but will post it in the bug forum).

 

I would also appreciate to be able to skip any cutscene as some cannot be.

 

Also, I preferred the previous notification system, so an option to switch between the old and the new would be nice too. :)


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#20 bongboy

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 11:28

I think one of the problems with that is that the drawing says that April befriends Crow, so it's perfectly reasonable to think of that moment as the forest scene. The other issue is that we don't even need to interact with Crow before meeting Westhouse, and those interactions are certainly not friendly yet. Maybe Saga remembers the order wrong too. :P

 

That's why! I'd forgotten that it was worded that way. I'd argue that I have a 100% success rate with the picture order all three times, then.


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