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We need at least another three chapters :-p


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#1 sithlord2

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 10:32

So, the next chapter will be the last one if I understand correctly. I'm a bit worried about this, to be honest. I finished chapter 4, and there are still so many open stories:

 

- The political situation in Propast

- Reza's future

- The implications of the joining of the First Dreamer with Zoe

- Kian's rescue mission + the whole resistance story in general

- The whole Brian Westhouse vs. the Undreaming thing (I don't think this will be answered at all in the next chapter)

- Are we going to figure out who the Prophet is?

 

If they are going to finish up all of this in one book, I'm sure the game will feel rushed. If they are not going to finish up the stories, we will end up with another cliffhanger, and I'm not thrilled about that either. 

 

I think we need at least three more chapters to make a complete conclusive story. I realise that not all questions will be answered, especially the ones regarding April. This is Zoe's story after all. But I do hope that Zoe's story gets a beautiful ending at the end of Dreamfall Chapters.

 

Your thoughts?



#2 Pawlo_86

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 11:03

According to Ragnar Reza's case will be explained in Chapters and Prophet will be revealed. Remember that Dreamer Cycle was designed as middle part of trilogy. There will be al ot of questions left! Let's hope that Book Five will answer some questions from original Dreamfall. Ragnar tweeted yesterday that Book Five will reference first Dreamfall and will answer a lot of questions. I have faith in his words. I think that there won't be cliffhangers ending like in Dreamfall but it will be "to be continued" like ending. Maybe similair to the ending from TLJ. That would be great!

 

My guess is that Book Five will feature 2 chapters and Epilogue. And maybe final Interlude.


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#3 Alcarmo

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 11:30

I´m not so sure that Zoë will have as beautiful ending as we would like to.... but I wish the best for her...and same for Kian.....ok, and many others...

and for me and the others... I wish this story never ends  :sotb:


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#4 CosmicD

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 12:08

It's my oppinion ofcourse, but I don't think the political situation needs more clarifying. It has in my view always been a vehicle to clarify how waticorp obtain the power the way they do to get everyone on dreamtime. I think that's a clarification on it's own. To me at least, there's no use to spend time in book 5 on saying "now did uminska win" ? 

It should be obvious that all the rest you list is in the works of being explained even if it's going to be a bit meta. A TLJ game never handfeeds explanations, these explanations are always done through suggestive nods in other unobvious storylines. Like for example the symmetry between the machines in stark and arcadia. Ferdows was not going to say, hey we"'ve got a bunch of towers in propast that mimic the operation we have going on here. It's something you notice yourself. Gilmore isn't going to say, "in arcadia below the azadi tower, we have a well of dreaming that receive everything Eingana feeds to it and that's why it can store data bigger than itself". This is an assertion that I personally make, and that's the strength of the TLJ saga, that solutions are both satisfying because they are so suggestive.

It's kinda like Ragnar and RTG WANT us to make up our own mind because they leave this room for interpretation, and not say "this is that and nothing else". Well, there are some rules but they don't fit into their sockets, we can make them mentally fit. That's what I find interesting about these games.

I think even the revelations about how Zoë ends the dreamer cycle and how it all fits in the tlj universe and it's many meta realities will continue to be something that you can discuss.


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#5 the red of the kin

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 12:42

It's fun to discuss interpretations of minor unresolved subplots once the game is over. I'm all for it, as long as they are not necessarily related to the main plot.

 

The reason why many of us are worrying relies in the fact that up the Dreamer's cycle is riddled with subplots that are entangled with the main story.

 

I don't mind speculating about where will Ulvic end up once all of this is over, if the story leaves that to my imagination...or discussing is Olivia lived on or really died.

 

But the matter of the Yethe and Oular? that has to be explained...are the Yethe the custodians of the well of spirits? Do they serve the Propher? Gotta know that.

Gotta know what's the real deal with Reza. Alive? Dead? Alive and brainless? Ghost in the Shell stuff?
 

I also worry about the house of all world. I reeeeeeally hope it wasn't put there to introduce TLJH. I'm quite positive it wasn't, but I'd just hate to get an  interlude of Saga going back home with Etta and telling Magnus "look, dad: I found mom! Now I reallly gotta go sare the Dreamer and be come April, see ya!"

As always with games we truly care about, we're always full of worries.

But I think as longs as we don't get a cliffhanger, we're in more than capable hands for an awesome ending :)


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#6 Pawlo_86

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 14:49

But the matter of the Yethe and Oular? that has to be explained...are the Yethe the custodians of the well of spirits? Do they serve the Propher? Gotta know that.

 

This is semi-explained. Yehte are The Grubbers from Dreamfall. Prophet can control them. They're slaves of black fire. They're releated to Well Of Dreams (Dream Chamber in Dreamfall).

But im not sure about when they split from Oular, why they left Purple Mountains and when they build underground city and Well Of Dreams...???


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#7 CosmicD

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 15:12

Yeah, the yethe/oular thing made me immediately think about the necropolis puzzle. Where April also says "this looks vageuly familiar". And everyone was thinking about banda and ancestors but we weren't entirely sure. Now this whole storyline has a bit more depth to it.

Also, I do some cutscenes or story bits in book 5 that are totally unrelated (or don't take place in story time) will kind of explain more about the house of all worlds, story time, the hirarchy, if saga is (according to my theory) the story teller that shaped our universe and babayaga/zoe are the metaphysical representations of light and darkness, ... all that crap...) Would be cool if i'd be confirmed or denied :) 



#8 the red of the kin

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 15:43

This is semi-explained. Yehte are The Grubbers from Dreamfall. Prophet can control them. They're slaves of black fire. They're releated to Well Of Dreams (Dream Chamber in Dreamfall).

But im not sure about when they split from Oular, why they left Purple Mountains and when they build underground city and Well Of Dreams...???

 

That's exactly what I'm asking myself.
Nevermind the weird symbols we see in the Undercity's puzzle. But the fact these creatures were separated...how, why, how have they become so different? Is it the gravity? After all the Yethe are undergroud and the Oular are way up on the mountains.


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#9 Pawlo_86

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 16:01

Yeah. From the clues about Wizard we can think that city was build five years before Dreamfall but its unlikely. The city looks pretty old, there are strange creatures in coffins. Ticking Glowing eggs and some magic-science machinery. And what really is Well of Dreams? What are meta-energies stored there? I always thought that there are captured dreams from Stark and/or Arcadia but now im not sure.

#10 DarkPerson

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 16:57

This is semi-explained. Yehte are The Grubbers from Dreamfall. Prophet can control them. They're slaves of black fire. They're releated to Well Of Dreams (Dream Chamber in Dreamfall).

But im not sure about when they split from Oular, why they left Purple Mountains and when they build underground city and Well Of Dreams...???

 

It is quite odd that black fire was ,mentioned once before in the series. According to the wiki page, dark people are the keepers of the black flame.


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#11 Ikon

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 17:02

I think we need at least three more chapters to make a complete conclusive story.

 

OK, just to be clear and specific, I presume you mean we need another three books. I say that because I assume that Book 5 will have at least 3 chapters.


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#12 Pawlo_86

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 17:26

It is quite odd that black fire was ,mentioned once before in the series. According to the wiki page, dark people are the keepers of the black flame.


I forgot about it. So maybe Dark People were keepers of Soul Stone and Wizard stole it from them?

#13 the red of the kin

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 19:20

Yeah. From the clues about Wizard we can think that city was build five years before Dreamfall but its unlikely. The city looks pretty old, there are strange creatures in coffins. Ticking Glowing eggs and some magic-science machinery. And what really is Well of Dreams? What are meta-energies stored there? I always thought that there are captured dreams from Stark and/or Arcadia but now im not sure.

 

The city was definitely built millenia before and the Temple of the Balance was right above it...to guard it, I guess. The Azadi surely built their tower demolishing the Temple because the Prophet asked them to do so.
The well of dreams is directly connected to Eingana. I watched again the scene where April touches the trapped dreams in the well. She does something to them, then the game switches back to Eingana and there is a powerful surge. The project Alkera leader asks what happened to the scientists and they say it might be an external cause.

 

I forgot about it. So maybe Dark People were keepers of Soul Stone and Wizard stole it from them?

 

Could be! Dark people....Wizard...Prophet....hmmm....

 

GandalfResearching.jpg


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#14 Ikon

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 19:31

Hmmmm, it's beginning to look like Zoe needs to go to platform 9 3/4 ;) :ph34r:


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#15 magritte

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 20:22

I don't think it's as complicated to resolve as all that because so many of these strands are closely linked together.  Kian appears to be on the verge of persuading the General to aid him in a coup, that should reveal--and bring down--the Prophet.  And I believe the Prophet to be tied to the Undreaming,(knowingly or not) and to be behind both the machines in Marcuria and WATICorp--and  WATICorp is what really matters in Stark not the specifics of what happened in Propast.  Reza's kind of a personal loose end for Zoe, but an easy enough one to resolve.  She may learn that he actually was killed by WATI and what she lived with was a simulacrum or even that she dreamed that Reza into existence.  She is a Dreamer, so her dreams create reality.

 

As to the implications, I'm not sure we'll get a really clear answer about what it means for Zoe to replace the First Dreamer.  It may be kept a little vague whether the cycle of destruction and rebirth leads to a new world dreamed by Zoe or a return to the beginning.


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#16 Pawlo_86

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 20:54

The city was definitely built millenia before and the Temple of the Balance was right above it...to guard it, I guess. The Azadi surely built their tower demolishing the Temple because the Prophet asked them to do so.
The well of dreams is directly connected to Eingana. I watched again the scene where April touches the trapped dreams in the well. She does something to them, then the game switches back to Eingana and there is a powerful surge. The project Alkera leader asks what happened to the scientists and they say it might be an external cause.


I also believe that Temple of Balance was build above to guard ruins and Well Of Dreams. Eingana and Well Of Dreams seem to be releated but we can't go forward with this untill we learn more about Eingana. I think that this creature is sending dreams from Stark to Arcadia. Those dreams are stored in Well Of Dreams.
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#17 Ikon

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 21:03

I posted about it in another thread (http://redthreadgame...-4/#entry111509), but I think this thread is another great example of how the episodic format has generated more, not less, interest & discussion than would be the case if DFC was released all at once as a complete game.

 

Look at how much discussion, argument & counter-argument, there has been with the episodic format. I think people are getting much more for their money this way.


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#18 Pawlo_86

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 21:24

Maybe Oular and Yethe didn't split for bad purposes. Abnaxus hinted that they both were protectors of dreams. So maybe Oular stay in Purple Mountains to guard Lux while Yethe went to south and build the city to protect Well Of Dreams? But later they became slaves of Undreaming and work for it? At the end Yethe became The Grubbers and slaves of Prophet.

Abnaxus said that Yehte unwittengly became slaves of black fire. So maybe they're fooled by Prophet like Azadi? Maybe he manipulated them?
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#19 the red of the kin

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 10:20

I posted about it in another thread (http://redthreadgame...-4/#entry111509), but I think this thread is another great example of how the episodic format has generated more, not less, interest & discussion than would be the case if DFC was released all at once as a complete game.

 

Look at how much discussion, argument & counter-argument, there has been with the episodic format. I think people are getting much more for their money this way.

 

I see what you're saying and technically you're right, but in the end I disagree.

Sure: it is nice to talk about a good videogame, but that should happen regardless of the format. If a movie/videogame/book is good, then it shall spawn conversations, as tlj did in 1999 (for me it was outside forums, at the time).

 

 

The episodic format troubles me for multiple reasons.

1) each episode is not standalone. It really interrupts an experience that should be continuous.

 

2) I forget things I did months ago and I can't seem to freely replay those books because the save system doen't have profiles

 

3) characters arcs are affected by the wait. If my character kisses someone 3 months earlier and declares himself gay 3 months after, I get confused. The way episodic format works on tv is you layout the main traits of your journey and characters in the first or first two episodes so people don't feel lost during the upcoming season. But boy do we feel lost with all the questions we have!

 

4) game experience varies! The biggest example is the switch from unity 4 to unity 5. 10 years ago this situation did not exist at all! And I don't think this is a plus. Granted: though graphics improved a lot! But this costed time in development and a shift in attention. We're talking people doing extras just to make something they've already done work..again! I don't want to get into the why it had to be done: I know why and I totally respect the decision. I'm just saying: think about the fact that years ago this simply did not exist as an option. You have your engine, your story, built your models, made your videogame and that's it.

 

So yeah: it's great to be here and speculate. I really enjoy it a lot! And I like you guys!
But does this mean episodic format rules? Not in my opinion ;)


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#20 the red of the kin

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 10:21

Abnaxus said that Yehte unwittengly became slaves of black fire. So maybe they're fooled by Prophet like Azadi? Maybe he manipulated them?

 

This has to be it!


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