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PROPAST ALL A DREAM!

Zoe Propast April Marcuria Dreamer

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#21 Kari2

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 19:57

Yes, I would agree, but the actual room may still be somewhere in Casablanca.



#22 Veen Friend

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 20:02

I think she's no longer in Kansas Casablanca, but the room for some reason "emulates" the room (and the view from the windows, etc) she was at the end of the first Dreamfall. Maybe it was already "fake" then or she was kidnapped/moved to that observation room later.

 

They found out that Zoé could exist two places at once. That made them nervous... Reza found the dreaming Zoé or she found Reza, and then they removed the real body of Zoé into a safe place for observation.



#23 urzagc13

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 20:03

Adding to clarify that the room seems specifically designed to emulate the one at the end of Dreamfall and the reason for that effort should prove interesting at least. One such reason could be that the designers of the room (Chang? Watti? ) know that Storytime Zoe would be able to see the area around her bed so they are "tricking" her with this deception. Though such levels of understanding regarding the world of dreams and Zoe's experience would be hard to explain as well.


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#24 ct2651

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 20:33

I think she's no longer in Kansas Casablanca, but the room for some reason "emulates" the room (and the view from the windows, etc) she was at the end of the first Dreamfall. Maybe it was already "fake" then or she was kidnapped/moved to that observation room later.

 

Simulating a room is important for making the mind think he's at home... even if it's all a lie.



#25 Veen Friend

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 20:52

Adding to clarify that the room seems specifically designed to emulate the one at the end of Dreamfall and the reason for that effort should prove interesting at least. One such reason could be that the designers of the room (Chang? Watti? ) know that Storytime Zoe would be able to see the area around her bed so they are "tricking" her with this deception. Though such levels of understanding regarding the world of dreams and Zoe's experience would be hard to explain as well.

 

Or they couldn't get Zoé out of the coma.. Realising that she could exist as another Zoé apart from her body. As a consequence she would still be in coma, and by her own decision. They couldn't force her back to her body, against her will. But could they try to convince her back to her comatose body? And perhaps this was their plan to get order out of this phenomenon or abnormal situation. And then her body was removed to a similar environment.

 

As a consequence: Where did Zoé wake up to from Storytime as the dreaming Zoé? An empty bed? We know that Zoé didn't remember much.


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#26 Veen Friend

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 21:12

Simulating a room is important for making the mind think he's at home... even if it's all a lie.

 

Yes, and it could be to comfort the body, to be sure the body didn't feel any damaging harm from the outside.



#27 loranna238

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 21:34

I'm playing through Ch. 4 again - which I LOVE - nothing has made me happier than returning to all the wonderful familiarities of TLJ. Anyway - I doubt I'm the first to think of this, but I am convinced that Zoe is dreaming all through Propast - in other words - I think she is still in the coma. And the reason is because: In Dreamfall: TLJ when she hooked up to the Dreamer at home (in Stark - at The Fringe & from Japan) - her body stayed behind. And when she was IN Marcuria - DREAMING - every time she was sent back home, her body disappeared - remember Na'ane and April freaking out "Where did she go??" and in the end scene when the Azadi kill the Rebels - Brynn and Chawan make her fall asleep and her body "poof! disappears again. Because when she is in a dream her body disappears when she goes to another location. In Propast when she hooks up to the Dreamer in front of Mira - her body disappears - meaning she was never really there in bodily form - she was in Propast in a dream (still in the coma).  Make sense? I can't wait until Book 5! :)

 

*Note: I posted same topic discussion over on Steam...

 

They kind of game us a hint that she really was  still in a coma when the blast went off and it showed her in the original bed, looking like she was about to come to.  What probably happened is that her mother was going to use her in place of Faith - but she dreamed herself off into Propast.  It doesn't explain Reza though.  Why was Reza there, if he knew she was in a coma? Did he just go to Propast and she followed him there in the dream? Is their another Reza somewhere still in Casablanca? I don't know if the entire thing was a dream, Mira and Wit and Hannah and Queenie were too real...Queenie at least realized she was half asleep.   But - she's also a dreamer so she shapes reality so she could have been shaping a very real dream.

 

Reza is a puzzle, if it wasn't entirely though.

 

I had to admit that I'm sitting there thinking this Reza wasn't that bad, and in my last version (I have like three) she ditched him, didn't really give him that much of a chance and made it about stupid things like cheese soup.   But - at the same time, either that Reza knew she was actually still in a coma, the whole thing wasn't real, or it wasn't him and was someone else.  So confusing.  He seemed to genuinely care about her, which made me snort at her comment to Hannah about making time for the people in your life that do care, as she hasn't talked to her dad in months and in the last version made stupid stuff not what was important in her relationship with her boyfriend.  

 

A little confused.


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#28 NicoleCT

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 21:43

 

 

Reza is a puzzle, if it wasn't entirely though.

 

I had to admit that I'm sitting there thinking this Reza wasn't that bad, and in my last version (I have like three) she ditched him, didn't really give him that much of a chance and made it about stupid things like cheese soup.   But - at the same time, either that Reza knew she was actually still in a coma, the whole thing wasn't real, or it wasn't him and was someone else.  So confusing.  He seemed to genuinely care about her, which made me snort at her comment to Hannah about making time for the people in your life that do care, as she hasn't talked to her dad in months and in the last version made stupid stuff not what was important in her relationship with her boyfriend.  

 

A little confused.

I actually don't think Propast is REAL. I don't think it is a real place and as such I don't think Reza was ever there. I think Reza died in Venice in Dreamfall TLJ. I think that Propast is in Zoe's mind in her dreamstate/coma state - where she is trying to wake up. And the struggle to wake up has caused her to have these experiences which are subtly reminding her who she is and where she needs to be. So for example, Reza in her "dream-coma" is there b/c she is remembering she had a boyfriend, she is remembering they had some problems - and eventually she will remember how she went to go look for him in Venice and that's what led her to the dreamers and WatiCorp. Another example: Zoe needs to remember Arcadia - so her dream-coma state of Propast is littered with signs - i.e. the Crow-Light-Up-Talking-Map. I believe as Queenie is a dragon - she had forced her way into Zoe's mind to aid her in waking up - and that was a real experience.  If Hanna is magical then the experiences with her may be real as well.  I may not be right, of course, but do you understand my theory better now? It's a bit confusing -but its what I really think now. I think the events in Propast (a/k/a Zoe's confused mind) represents her struggle to wake up.


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#29 CosmicD

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 21:54

I can't let go of this thought that someone is also trying to wake her up all the time, the bomb in propast being one of the, because that almost seemed to work but not quite.. She just twitched. You know how you sometimes wake up after dying in your dream, or falling, or having another emotion filled experience ? Maybe something was trying to trigger that.


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#30 ChristianVelch

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 22:20

I found the interesting thing.

 

 Propast it's a word from Czech language. It means ABYSS . It's interesting i think :)


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#31 NicoleCT

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 22:30

I found the interesting thing.

 

 Propast it's a word from Czech language. It means ABYSS . It's interesting i think :)

Wow - that IS interesting. Great detective work!



#32 Mr_Russ

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 14:41

Queenie - you have to wake up!

Yes, I agree Propast is a mental construct too.


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#33 the red of the kin

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 15:08

I kind of jokingly said propast is really pro-past, meaning it "helps" Zoe remember the past.
After all the Vagabon keeps telling Zoe she'll have to "remember"


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#34 CitizenErased

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 16:45

I'm conflicted about this revelation, in regards to the characters you met, befriended and got to know in Propast -- I hope that isn't brushed aside altogether. I do get how it could make in regards to all the ominous hints thrown around, Zoe seeing a therapist about her inability to remember, Queenie telling her to wake up etc. But yeah.


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#35 Ikon

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 16:54

Hmmmm, I'm of 2 minds on this ;)  In Book 1 Zoe joins up with her younger, bitchy self and launches herself 'home'. I tend to think that's her launching a dream to another place, in this case Propast, so Propast could very well be real; it's just that she isn't physically there in the normal sense. I think it's much the same as when she dreams herself to Marcuria. We don't think of Marcuria as not real, but Zoe is there interacting with people and things.

 

OTOH, there are signs that Propast isn't real. It's certainly possible that Propast is a 'memory aid' designed to help Zoe come out of her coma.

 

As far as the room Zoe is in, I'm not sure there's any reason to think it's a different room from the one she was in in DF: TLJ. Did we ever see the wall of that room that's opposite the bed? Is there any way we could know that there's an observation window in that wall?

 

One thing that has bugged me is Hanna and Anna. I mean, 2 badass redheads, in 2 different worlds, both with very similar names. Coincidence? Doesn't seem likely to me. I think this is something that could support the idea of Propast not being real. Anna could be a projection of Hanna into Propast, trying to aid and guide Zoe.


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#36 the red of the kin

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 17:27

I'm conflicted about this revelation, in regards to the characters you met, befriended and got to know in Propast -- I hope that isn't brushed aside altogether. I do get how it could make in regards to all the ominous hints thrown around, Zoe seeing a therapist about her inability to remember, Queenie telling her to wake up etc. But yeah.

 

Well it wouldn't be a first. After all many characters from Dreamfall: TLJ were quickly brushed aside to make space for these new characters of DFC.


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#37 Ikon

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 19:41

"They're my creations and they'll die if I say so, die if I say so, die if I say so..."   <- sung to the tune of "It's my party" :D


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#38 Guyra

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 20:14

I wrote about this in the Book 5 speculations thread. I'll just quote what I wrote there:

I'm also very curious as to where Zoë wakes up now. It's possible that Propast doesn't even exist - it was being hinted at already in the first book. In that case, she has now woken up into the real world. Propast might have been reality, or her dream, or it might have been the place you go when you connect to the Dreamer. I find the latter more likely.

  • ​If it had all been just a dream, some of the characters would have been completely unnecessary to include in the game.
  • If Propast is where you go when you connect to the Dreamer, that would mean everyone there would be actual people. Some of the inhabitants can be heard speculating whether they are already in the dream. And there are signs everywhere telling her to wake up.
  • Wati doesn't want to kill Zoë in case they get another Faith incident, I guess, but just letting her roam free also seems highly unlikely. Why only give her amnesia, when they could've given her different memories instead, which would have made her less likely to go off and try to find out what happened to her. Already at the start of the game she was questioning Wati.
  • In the first Dreamfall, Zoë always went through Winter to get to Arcadia. Faith was the experiment that laid the ground work for the Dreamer, and Winter was created as a new world between worlds. This makes it seem to me that Propast may very well be the same thing: A world between worlds. It would then make more sense that Zoë is able to get to Arcadia from here, as she would always go through such a proxy earlier. Basically, the world of Propast is similar to Winter, or Winter rebuilt by Wati after Faith was no longer there to control it.

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#39 OptoNick

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 20:23

Since Book 2 I'm thinking about Propast as a real place where Zoe's (sub?)consciousness, suppressed by comatose state and drugs, dreamt her into, while it's restoring to normal mode after shake up in the end of Storytime sequence. Kind of buffer zone where she meant to regain faith motivation to live, build up new Ego and Super Ego, in freudistic terms

 

What is kinda falling out of this theory is Reza: does she dreamt herself into that place and time because that Non-Reza been there? Or it was random, and she just bent it by her needs, imagined alternative Reza, but unconsciously remembered that something's wrong with him?

 

More interestingly, Falk Friedman could be a real man, or kind of Agent Smith from The Matrix - guardian and regulator of her own dream.

Same applies for other outstanding characters who are not a faceless statists, especially Hanna and Queenie


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#40 inspector

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 20:33

Since Book 2 I'm thinking about Propast as a real place where Zoe's (sub?)consciousness, suppressed by comatose state and drugs, dreamt her into, while it's restoring to normal mode after shake up in the end of Storytime sequence. Kind of buffer zone where she meant to regain faith motivation for life, build up new Ego and Super Ego, in freudistic terms

 

What is kinda falling out of this theory is Reza: does she dreamt herself into that place and time because that Non-Reza been there? Or it was random, and she just bend it by her needs, imagined alternative Reza, but unconsciously remembered that something's wrong with him?

 

More interestingly, Falk Friedman could be a real man, or kind of Agent Smith from The Matrix - guardian and regulator of her own dream.

Same applies for other outstanding characters who are not a faceless statists, especially Hanna and Queenie

 

If Falk Friedman is really an agent Smith and if Helena Chang is surveying comatose Zoe, than he can be agent sent by Chang and the Fraulein is Chang.

 

Or another he is indded an agent of Zoe for her own dream and Fraulein is Zoe from another dimension in the multiverse. This other dimension can be in terms of space, time, conciousness or something else.


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