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Saga April Etta White Spring Dragon Kin Magnus House of all worlds HoaW

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#121 Neurotic

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 09:59

I'd be more willing to accept that theory.  However, the way the opening cinematic is constructed, with April's funeral immediately followed by Saga's birth, seems to strongly imply that Saga is April reborn, and not that Saga somehow becomes April.

Keep in mind that the House of All Worlds exists in a realm separate from Stark/Arcadia time. When Lady Alvane opened the mystery door for April as she is being hunted by the Vanguard, for example;

 

April: Did you bring me here?
Old Woman: You brought yourself here, but yes, I opened a doorway for you.
April: Why?
Old Woman: Because that's how the story goes, April. You escape. You outrun your pursuers, and your journey continues. It's been written, and we cannot change that now.

Since April Ryan is in the middle of her story and Lady Alvane tells her the story is already done, wouldn't that be a problem if this realm was governed by time as well? The stories that are told and written here manifest themselves in Stark/Arcadia in accordance to how they are written. We're following a narrative that doesn't necessarily mean April's funeral is followed by Saga's birth. The purpose of the narrative is compelling storytelling and I wouldn't think as compelling if they presented the Saga parts before April Ryan meets her demise. 

I'm sure most of us were in full-blown denial after 'Dreamfall', then came 'Dreamfall: Chapters' and the funeral and we boo-hooed, then we're introduced to Saga's part and there's a glimmer of hope. But maybe we're just being introduced to the author of April's TLJ story?

I don't know! There are a lot of possibilities here. I'm leaning more towards Saga's storytelling, though. :)
 

 


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#122 the red of the kin

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 13:35

 

 

Cortez: 'For something to be real, to be truthful, the artist must transfer -- shift -- part of him or her into the work to transcend the illusion and reach for the truth of art.' 

 

Yes this could point at what happens when Saga draws and then walks into the drawings. 

 

 

Saga has written April in the likeness of herself. They look alike, both are artistic, shifter, intelligent, non-human anchestry, and so on.. When she places her drawings in the correct order, a shift opens which she steps through. Shifting herself into her work in order to materialize April Ryan, and her story, in the real world. 

 

 

I never saw Saga much similar to April. When I first played book 1 I had in mind DF:TLJ, where the white dragon is presumably assaulted by ..someone and presumably dies. So when she appears in ghost form to Saga it seemed to me like Saga should have become the white dragon.
There's also the issue that in book 4 we come to know Saga's been outside the HOAW more than once...


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#123 Neurotic

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 16:11

I never saw Saga much similar to April. 

 

Just off the top of my head;

Blue eyes. 
Both have a mole on their right cheek.
Blonde hair when children.
Both are pretty. :)
Both shows interests in drawing at an early age.
Both wants to become artists.
Both appear to be logical thinkers.
Both are shifters.
Both have shifted to Mount Tireney.
Both appear to have a sort of symbiotic bond with the White Dragon Reborn/A ghostly manifestation of her. 
Saga is confident that she'll finish her painting for her first ever art-exhibit. April Ryan finishes her painting in time for her first art-exhibit.
Saga's mother disappearing while she was still an infant and will not be able to see her child grow up. April Ryan is already an adult when she encounters her biological mother for the first time. Also, as the White Dragon lay dying, she says she wishes she could've seen her children grow up...


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#124 the red of the kin

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 08:11

I'm not much into debating this, for it's a matter of opinion...but heh..just for the sake of throwing my opinion here I go.

 

Just off the top of my head;

Blue eyes. 
Both have a mole on their right cheek.
Blonde hair when children.
Both are pretty. :)

 
I agree with the last one here :D
But Saga really reminds me of the white dragon reborn, actually. Her eyes are (these are videogames, granted) of a lighter bluen than that of April.
I've looked for a mole on their cheek but I seem to not find it.
Many people are very blond when they're babies and then they turn darker (me being one of  them). In Saga's case her hair even turn cobalt °_°

 

Both shows interests in drawing at an early age.
Both wants to become artists.

 
While it's hard to argue with this, it's also true that Saga's "dream" (hehe) is to become a songwriter. But..again...you're right: in book 4 it' clear she's become a painter.
 

Both have shifted to Mount Tireney.

 
Are you sure about this? Because saga definitely painted it but she also draw the entire TLJ story when she was a baby and she never shifted yet.
If you're speculating she painted the Mount and then at the end of book four shifted to it and BECAME April then I'm with you there (all clues point in that direction).
 

Both appear to have a sort of symbiotic bond with the White Dragon Reborn/A ghostly manifestation of her. 

 
 
This is very true.
 
 

Saga is confident that she'll finish her painting for her first ever art-exhibit. April Ryan finishes her painting in time for her first art-exhibit.
Saga's mother disappearing while she was still an infant and will not be able to see her child grow up. April Ryan is already an adult when she encounters her biological mother for the first time. Also, as the White Dragon lay dying, she says she wishes she could've seen her children grow up...

 

Indeed.

As you can see my argument was only on their looks, while I'm agreeing with most of what you say about their character :)


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#125 Vanya-illin

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 18:57

 

Keep in mind that the House of All Worlds exists in a realm separate from Stark/Arcadia time. When Lady Alvane opened the mystery door for April as she is being hunted by the Vanguard, for example;

 

April: Did you bring me here?
Old Woman: You brought yourself here, but yes, I opened a doorway for you.
April: Why?
Old Woman: Because that's how the story goes, April. You escape. You outrun your pursuers, and your journey continues. It's been written, and we cannot change that now.

Since April Ryan is in the middle of her story and Lady Alvane tells her the story is already done, wouldn't that be a problem if this realm was governed by time as well? The stories that are told and written here manifest themselves in Stark/Arcadia in accordance to how they are written. We're following a narrative that doesn't necessarily mean April's funeral is followed by Saga's birth. The purpose of the narrative is compelling storytelling and I wouldn't think as compelling if they presented the Saga parts before April Ryan meets her demise.

Granted that Abnaxus has a lot of trouble with appropriate use of tense in his speech... but his conversation with Zoe and Crow seemed to strongly indicate a progression from April (the Dragon of Spring) to Saga (the Girl who Walks between Worlds).


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#126 Neurotic

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 03:42

I'm not much into debating this, for it's a matter of opinion...but heh..just for the sake of throwing my opinion here I go.

 

 
I agree with the last one here :D
But Saga really reminds me of the white dragon reborn, actually. Her eyes are (these are videogames, granted) of a lighter bluen than that of April.
I've looked for a mole on their cheek but I seem to not find it.
Many people are very blond when they're babies and then they turn darker (me being one of  them). In Saga's case her hair even turn cobalt °_°

 

 
While it's hard to argue with this, it's also true that Saga's "dream" (hehe) is to become a songwriter. But..again...you're right: in book 4 it' clear she's become a painter.
 
 
 
Are you sure about this? Because saga definitely painted it but she also draw the entire TLJ story when she was a baby and she never shifted yet.
If you're speculating she painted the Mount and then at the end of book four shifted to it and BECAME April then I'm with you there (all clues point in that direction).
 
 
 
 
This is very true.
 
 
 

 

Indeed.

As you can see my argument was only on their looks, while I'm agreeing with most of what you say about their character :)

 

Sorry about not quoting bits and pieces of your post at a time, I haven't figured out how to do that yet so.. Hope it's not too messy! :P
 
No debate intended on my side, just trying to piece together the story. It's helpful to hear other people's take on things cause they might've thought something out that fits better than what I've already come up with, or point out things I never considered before. So I appreciate hearing them. :D
 
Interesting idea about Saga being the White Dragon Reborn, but I'm having a bit of trouble with it because of what The White Dragon says about her human form; Tight and restricting and not used to it. Since Saga has been in human form since.. forever, wouldn't she be used to it?
 
Also, the ghost that appears in Saga's living room when she is born resembles the human form of The White Dragon Reborn. 
 
As for the mole, did you mean on the White Dragon Reborn or April/Saga? Cause it stands out clearly in April/Saga. 
 
I too had blonde hair as a child, but it turned darker over the years, just like April's hair. Saga's hair on the other hand.. It does appear to me as if Saga has streaks of weird colors including cobalt as you mentioned. The first time I took note of it I thought of teens who dye their hair in weird colors as a method of rebellion, maybe Saga did the same thing? We already know that this Galath person brings her gifts from Stark, so perhaps he brought some of that too?
 
Had forgotten about the songwriter thing, thanks for the reminder! I think it might have something to do with Magnus singing and playing the guitar. Her idolizing her father at a very young age and as she grew older, independent thought took her in another direction.
 
As for Mount Tireney; I am never sure about anything unless in the presence of conclusive evidence! :D
 
Saga's house is somewhere outside of Stark/Arcadia, where? I think it's in Storytime, and stories that are told in Storytime appears to manifest themselves in 'reality'. 
 
Etta is seen tapping away at her typewriter in book 1(?), then later we find that she has left the house on several occasions and appear to have no choice in the matter. What if the stuff she is writing are stories she intend to introduce into 'reality', and that her leaving the house is how that happens?
 
Remember the Vagabond at the end of 'Dreamfall'? He tells Zoe that she must tell her story to him cause they're short on time. Perhaps telling the story to the Vagabond is how to cement the story into reality?
 
If that is the case then maybe TLJ is Saga's story that she told to the Vagabond when she shifted out of the house? Imagine all the batshit stuff that would happen if all stories told in Storytime manifest in reality. Saga's story is nonsensical enough as it is so I imagine there would be the need of a 'facilitator'. Perhaps that is why she isn't allowed to leave the house unsupervised? 
 
Suppose this is the way it works then Saga would've already been aware of the Mount because April visits it twice in TLJ. Remember how this mysterious 'Galath' brings her stuff when he visits? Perhaps he brought her some Aracadian literature? Maybe a copy of 'Surviving the Border Mountains' by Tomi Strande? :D


#127 the red of the kin

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 08:58

Sorry about not quoting bits and pieces of your post at a time, I haven't figured out how to do that yet so.. Hope it's not too messy! :P

 
It's not: you write very well :)
All of the text you see quoted is put inside a "quote tag", which has properties (es. quote name="Neurotic" post="118676" timestamp="1455331353"). To view this tag these is a "switch button" on the top-left corner of your editing commands strip. This switch will turn your post into plain text and you'll be able to see all the tags.
A tag is opened and closed. All you need to do is copy the opener tag and paste it at the beginning of the single phrase you want to quote. remember to also close it by copying and pasting the closing tag.
 
 

Interesting idea about Saga being the White Dragon Reborn, but I'm having a bit of trouble with it because of what The White Dragon says about her human form; Tight and restricting and not used to it. Since Saga has been in human form since.. forever, wouldn't she be used to it?


Yeah the white dragon is definitely not used to human form but has saga been used to being of human form "forever"? For all I know (until the games unmistakingly proves me otherwise) she could have been the re-incarnation of a dragon. Cortez didn't have a problem being of human form so maybe it does take some getting used to but then it's fine, Why does her mom Etta leave to never come back? I interpreted Etta is actually a dragon...but that's far fetched I'm sure.
 

Also, the ghost that appears in Saga's living room when she is born resembles the human form of The White Dragon Reborn.

 
Oh I think it's pretty clear it is the white dragon ..."unborn"...I speculated the white was attacked and killed at the library and now lived in Saga...again: I know new evidence doesn't point to that. But this is the first thing I thought of.
 

As for the mole, did you mean on the White Dragon Reborn or April/Saga? Cause it stands out clearly in April/Saga.


I never noticed it on Saga but I must admit I didn't check thoroughly. Now I did and you're right: I saw it. It was little less visible than in April (perhaps because the lighting is a little dim). So this should tell us Saga is April Ryan BEFORE TLJ happens, right? She's young and her aspect/body is the same.
 

I too had blonde hair as a child, but it turned darker over the years, just like April's hair. Saga's hair on the other hand.. It does appear to me as if Saga has streaks of weird colors including cobalt as you mentioned. The first time I took note of it I thought of teens who dye their hair in weird colors as a method of rebellion, maybe Saga did the same thing? We already know that this Galath person brings her gifts from Stark, so perhaps he brought some of that too?


Nah. I think if you look at Etta's hair you'll have your answer ;)
 

Had forgotten about the songwriter thing, thanks for the reminder! I think it might have something to do with Magnus singing and playing the guitar. Her idolizing her father at a very young age and as she grew older, independent thought took her in another direction.


Yes that would exaplin it. It's fairly common for artists to stretch into many different fields...I know something about it.
 

As for Mount Tireney; I am never sure about anything unless in the presence of conclusive evidence!  :D
 
Saga's house is somewhere outside of Stark/Arcadia, where? I think it's in Storytime, and stories that are told in Storytime appears to manifest themselves in 'reality'. 
 
Etta is seen tapping away at her typewriter in book 1(?), then later we find that she has left the house on several occasions and appear to have no choice in the matter. What if the stuff she is writing are stories she intend to introduce into 'reality', and that her leaving the house is how that happens?


This is the part where we simply don't have enough to work with, in my opinion. There's no sufficient info. Who and what is Etta? who is Magnus? clearly not from Stark, since he uses magic. They talk about Midgard..but it's just a name. I would need description and explanation...otherwise...let's fan-theorize!
One thing is clear: Etta was supposed to ...do something..and Magnus knew it, but they both decided to build the house. From the way they talk it seems to me that the reason was Saga. But Magnus though they could be together for more years than the amount they got. Their "exile" doesn't seems to have been forced, since they also went places....but we know nothing of these places.
I fear this will remain a mystery to be solved in TLJ:home. Fingers crossed for it to be developed!
 

Remember the Vagabond at the end of 'Dreamfall'? He tells Zoe that she must tell her story to him cause they're short on time. Perhaps telling the story to the Vagabond is how to cement the story into reality?


Absolutely. Zoe is now Lux and her purpose seems crystal clear to her now. We know Lux dreamt reality, so it makes sense now Zoe will do the same, if not more.
 

If that is the case then maybe TLJ is Saga's story that she told to the Vagabond when she shifted out of the house?


Now that would be something!
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#128 Pawlo_86

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 10:25

According to Abnaxus Saga is reborn April, Kin and she will be Lady Alvane.

#129 the red of the kin

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 13:45

According to Abnaxus Saga is reborn April, Kin and she will be Lady Alvane.

 

I'd pay for Abnaxus to actually say it with the words you just used ;)


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#130 Neurotic

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 14:51

I'd pay for Abnaxus to actually say it with the words you just used ;)

I'd pay even more if 'April' was replaced with 'the girl who is named after spring'. :P


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#131 Ikon

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 19:03

I'd pay even more if 'April' was replaced with 'the girl who is named after spring'. :P

 

Only true if you equate April with Spring. In many places, including the entire southern hemisphere, April is not the month when Spring occurs.


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#132 the red of the kin

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 19:55

Only true if you equate April with Spring. In many places, including the entire southern hemisphere, April is not the month when Spring occurs.

 

aaaah but springs bounce! ;)


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#133 Ikon

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 20:29

aaaah but springs bounce! ;)

 

Yes indeed, springs do bounce, but Springs do not ;) (see what I did there... mwahahahahaha) :D


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#134 Neurotic

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 20:57

Only true if you equate April with Spring. In many places, including the entire southern hemisphere, April is not the month when Spring occurs.

Southern hemisphere? Well of course there is no spring down in Ch'Angagriel! Have you neglected your studies? The one about the silver spear, the arrogant Parech and the curse! Really now! Get yourself to the Enclave Library at once! 

:P


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#135 the red of the kin

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Posted 14 February 2016 - 00:19

Southern hemisphere? Well of course there is no spring down in Ch'Angagriel! Have you neglected your studies? The one about the silver spear, the arrogant Parech and the curse! Really now! Get yourself to the Enclave Library at once! 

:P

 

I think old Umber Ianos told me about it once :P


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#136 Ikon

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Posted 14 February 2016 - 17:59

Southern hemisphere? Well of course there is no spring down in Ch'Angagriel! Have you neglected your studies? The one about the silver spear, the arrogant Parech and the curse! Really now! Get yourself to the Enclave Library at once! 

:P

 

Hmmm, I don't recall any reference that the wastelands are in the southern hemisphere, only that they're in the Southlands, which could simply mean they're across the sea, south of Marcuria. They could still be in the northern hemisphere. :P


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#137 the red of the kin

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Posted 14 February 2016 - 19:23

ergo-vis_a_vis.jpg


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#138 Neurotic

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Posted 17 February 2016 - 19:06

Hmmm, I don't recall any reference that the wastelands are in the southern hemisphere, only that they're in the Southlands, which could simply mean they're across the sea, south of Marcuria. They could still be in the northern hemisphere. :P

Totally still counts cause there's never gonna be any spring going on down there after the 'curse'. :P



#139 Ikon

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Posted 17 February 2016 - 23:11

Totally still counts cause there's never gonna be any spring going on down there after the 'curse'. :P

 

Again, why would that necessarily be?


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#140 Neurotic

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Posted 17 February 2016 - 23:30

Again, why would that necessarily be?

Because there will never be anything other than desert down there? I'm just joking around if that wasn't clear.. :)







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Saga, April, Etta, White, Spring, Dragon, Kin, Magnus, House of all worlds, HoaW

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