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Saga April Etta White Spring Dragon Kin Magnus House of all worlds HoaW

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#1 Loliloli

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 16:08

I think it is stated quite clearly, but its still just a theory:

 

Spoiler

 

This thing was much more complicated to describe in words then I thought it would. LOL. I used the words "spiritual", "physical", "spirit" and "soul" just to make the point... Probably they are all physical. :P

 

What do you guys think about all of this? Am I missing something? Have I mistaken some facts along the way by mistake? :P


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#2 Pawlo_86

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 16:14

Awesome theories. This is good explanations for Saga's shifts in Interlude 2 abnd 3. Also Uncle Galath cares for Saga so he can be Red Dragon.

I have a theory that April/Saga is a spirit of The First Guardian. This is a reason why Balance didnt allow April to became 13th Guardian.
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#3 Toffy

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 16:44

I think it is stated quite clearly, but its still just a theory:

 

Spoiler

 

Wow, this makes so much sense. It's like you put in words all the pieces. Incredible, thanks for sharing!


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#4 Tamahome

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 16:52

Very interesting idea! But I think there are some holes in your theory. 

 

First of all, if Etta is indeed always the White of the Kin she would always be a mother to Saga who would have been April during the time of TLJ and DF but we know that is not the case because the new mother calls April a sister.

Secondly there were two mothers in TLJ, the old mother and the reborn mother but there was only one April. Saga ''shifts into her drawings'' after Etta was already gone, which you theorise is because the reborn mother was attacked, but April was already present in the story by that point, so unless Saga also time travelled it's impossible for Etta to have not come back because she was attacked as the reborn white.

 

Otherwise it's quite a nice theory. :)


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#5 urzagc13

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 16:54

Very interesting theory! I must say I didn't even consider a possibility like this! (To add one more thing: maybe what Etta has been writing is her experiences of these "other" lives of hers when she walks).

 

I'm not entirely sold on it yet (though I'm getting there), and I also have one unanswered question: Saga, in her previous shift (from Interlude 2), was supposedly relatively old enough to have retained her memories (unlike baby Saga = April who remembers vaguely, like a dream). So, if this theory is true, what does Interlude 3's Saga remember of Interlude's 2 "walking"/life? Because she doesn't seem to mention it at all, only mentioning April's life again.


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#6 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 16:56

I think I need to go back and replay the HoAW stuff as well as the bit with Abnaxus. I feel like I either interpreted a lot of things differently or I missed something... ...Both equally likely. :P

 

Loving the theories, though. ^_^ This is going to be a fun discussion until Book Five. 


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#7 Loliloli

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 17:41

Very interesting idea! But I think there are some holes in your theory. 
 
First of all, if Etta is indeed always the White of the Kin she would always be a mother to Saga who would have been April during the time of TLJ and DF but we know that is not the case because the new mother calls April a sister.
Secondly there were two mothers in TLJ, the old mother and the reborn mother but there was only one April. Saga ''shifts into her drawings'' after Etta was already gone, which you theorise is because the reborn mother was attacked, but April was already present in the story by that point, so unless Saga also time travelled it's impossible for Etta to have not come back because she was attacked as the reborn white.
 
Otherwise it's quite a nice theory. :)

 
I don't have an explanation for the sister part. but for the missing Etta part - Time flows very differently in the HoAW and in the physical worlds. Lifetimes on the physical world seems to become days in the HoAW. Maybe they are not parallel in any way. What I mean is maybe even if Etta and Saga goes "Walking" at the same time - maybe they doesn't end up in the same time in the physical worlds. I have to say I don't think its the answer because this over complicate the whole thing. Maybe Etta did came back and went again while Saga walked as April? i don't remember the fine detail.

 

Very interesting theory! I must say I didn't even consider a possibility like this! (To add one more thing: maybe what Etta has been writing is her experiences of these "other" lives of hers when she walks).

 

I'm not entirely sold on it yet (though I'm getting there), and I also have one unanswered question: Saga, in her previous shift (from Interlude 2), was supposedly relatively old enough to have retained her memories (unlike baby Saga = April who remembers vaguely, like a dream). So, if this theory is true, what does Interlude 3's Saga remember of Interlude's 2 "walking"/life? Because she doesn't seem to mention it at all, only mentioning April's life again.

 

Saga says in interlude 3 that the first time she walked was in the age of 7. I think we see her shift/walk in an age much younger in interlude 2. She seems in the age of 2-4 in interlude 2. maybe she doesn't remember that. maybe I'm wrong. do we know her age in interlude 2?

 

I think I need to go back and replay the HoAW stuff as well as the bit with Abnaxus. I feel like I either interpreted a lot of things differently or I missed something... ...Both equally likely. :P

 

Loving the theories, though. ^_^ This is going to be a fun discussion until Book Five. 

 

I am so surprised by the reactions here. I was expecting reactions to be more like "TY, Captain Obvious!". This theory did struck me suddenly while playing interlude 3, and probably it is not all that straight foreword, but it seemed so obvious to me after I thought about it. like we were meant to understand all of this after this book.


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#8 urzagc13

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 17:53

I think she's 7 in interlude 2. She even has "homework" to do, I don't think anyone would use that term for a kid younger than 5.


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#9 Loliloli

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 18:26

I think she's 7 in interlude 2. She even has "homework" to do, I don't think anyone would use that term for a kid younger than 5.

 
That really hurts the theory. :P
Saga says:
 

I remember Crow, but I'm pretty sure he's not real and that I never met him. I mean, I went walking for the first time when i was seven, but I drew this before that.


I have this weird, vague memory of going on a journey with wisecracking bird called Crow, but... I'm sure that was just a very, very vivid dream.


April thought her shifting are vivid dreams at first...
I feel like I cant say something I'm really sure of, and I need to play the interludes again.
There is also the spirit in the HoAW livingroom in interlude 1 which calls saga "daughter sister".
 

(To add one more thing: maybe what Etta has been writing is her experiences of these "other" lives of hers when she walks).

THIS!
Etta Writes and Saga Draws.
Maybe they are both documenting their experience while walking - maybe they are documenting their past lives like that.
Or maybe creating the story for their next lives before they walk them?


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#10 SimonCle

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 18:43

This is a really cool concept and theory. If this is not what's going on I feel like there should be another story like this :D

In this theory would Lady Alvane be another reincarnation of the Spring Dragon, or Saga herself (or niether I guess)?
 

 

Very interesting idea! But I think there are some holes in your theory. 

 

First of all, if Etta is indeed always the White of the Kin she would always be a mother to Saga who would have been April during the time of TLJ and DF but we know that is not the case because the new mother calls April a sister.

Secondly there were two mothers in TLJ, the old mother and the reborn mother but there was only one April. Saga ''shifts into her drawings'' after Etta was already gone, which you theorise is because the reborn mother was attacked, but April was already present in the story by that point, so unless Saga also time travelled it's impossible for Etta to have not come back because she was attacked as the reborn white.

 

Otherwise it's quite a nice theory. :)

 

From the steam trading card:

"The House of All Worlds sits on the intersection between all worlds and all of time. Built by Etta and Magnus, two lovers divided by time and space, it is their anchor: the one place they can be together. Here, they've made a home and a family."
The house has also been descriped as "removed from time and space".
I don't think continuity is relevant.

The sister/siter-daughter thing does put a hole in the theory though, as far as I can see. Especially the siter-daughter thing points more towards straight-up reicarnation.


Edit:

Another thought: if this theory was true, then Saga "walked" as 14 years old as well, right. It would be a huge missed opportunity not to let this incarnation be part of the Dreamfall Chapters story. Assuming the theory is true, who do you think 14-year old saga is?

 

Edit2:
 

 

Etta Writes and Saga Draws.
Maybe they are both documenting their experience while walking - maybe they are documenting their past lives like that.
Or maybe creating the story for their next lives before they walk them?

Very cool idea. Seems to fit the whole 'dreaming up the world' theme.


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#11 Loliloli

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 19:08

Another thought: if this theory was true, then Saga "walked" as 14 years old as well, right. It would be a huge missed opportunity not to let this incarnation be part of the Dreamfall Chapters story. Assuming the theory is true, who do you think 14-year old saga is?

 
Oh, that's simple. She is, by no doubt, Hanna. :D

Hanna isn't really a dreamer. We get that from book 4. So she is probably a shifter.

Also, pink dragonfly? dragonfly as in "I'M ONLY HALF A DRAGON" not a full dragon. pink maybe as a color for spring? Hanna is april.

 

lol. I got carried away.

 

I Also think only dragons can shift. And I find a lot of resemblance between "Walking" and "Shifting". After all Saga is "The Girl Who Walk Between Worlds" - by the name of interlude 3.

Wait. Did Cortez tell April he couldn't open a shift? Or just that he can't open a shift for her to pass in?

When someone like Westhouse, which is not a dragon, I hope, cross between the worlds it made up a whole mess.


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#12 tummy ooh aah

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 19:10

Really neat theory. I have some questions though. I need to replay but from what I recall, Abnaxus claims April was split in two upon rebirth (not that she was already one half of a whole), maybe I'm mistaken though. I assume that your theory would say that Saga/Etta are the two halves of the whole spirit of the White, but I don't see any reason to think this would be the case. For one, why two pieces? Why not three? The notion of three is more important to the White(s) that we've encountered so far: the Mother that was, that is, and that may yet be. April was to be the Mother of one possible future, in keeping with the Spring theme - newness, rebirth, change.

 

Maybe when April died her Spring-Mother spirit split into two because there were two diverging future paths paved at that point - two Mothers for two possible futures, and whichever future plays out, that's the Mother that inherits the Kin legacy.

 

So maybe Saga and Etta are those two new halves, but I don't think the cycling works in that case. I'm not sure... something about this just doesn't fit for me... need to ponder more...

 

Edit: Also, if this is the case, what aspect of the White is the one that visits Saga as a baby, while Etta is in the House as well mind you.


Edited by tummy ooh aah, 04 December 2015 - 19:12.

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#13 Loliloli

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 19:29

Really neat theory. I have some questions though. I need to replay but from what I recall, Abnaxus claims April was split in two upon rebirth (not that she was already one half of a whole), maybe I'm mistaken though. I assume that your theory would say that Saga/Etta are the two halves of the whole spirit of the White, but I don't see any reason to think this would be the case. For one, why two pieces? Why not three? The notion of three is more important to the White(s) that we've encountered so far: the Mother that was, that is, and that may yet be. April was to be the Mother of one possible future, in keeping with the Spring theme - newness, rebirth, change.

 

Maybe when April died her Spring-Mother spirit split into two because there were two diverging future paths paved at that point - two Mothers for two possible futures, and whichever future plays out, that's the Mother that inherits the Kin legacy.

 

So maybe Saga and Etta are those two new halves, but I don't think the cycling works in that case. I'm not sure... something about this just doesn't fit for me... need to ponder more...

 

Edit: Also, if this is the case, what aspect of the White is the one that visits Saga as a baby, while Etta is in the House as well mind you.

Wow. This is hardcore. I feel it solves a few problems rather then creating them. as you said, 3 parts of the white. Etta, Saga, and the third one being the spirit that visit saga in interlude 1.

 

Also when I heard what Abnaxus said I thought about something completely different. Maybe that's the case. I dont think he used the word "split" though I'm not sure. I think he was referring to the dead April, and the new, Reborned one. so they are 2...


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#14 Loliloli

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 20:15

Further more:

Maybe even 2 spirits of April can co-exist in the same time in the physical worlds. I think Hanna is Arpil reborn. While April is Saga from a younger age. they do co-exist at a time in stark and arcadia. As I said - maybe walking from the house of all worlds doesnt mean you will end up in a certain time. maybe young saga arrived as April, and older saga arrived before April (her self from the past) has died in the physical worlds. so they are 2 at the time in the physical world. this sound really plain to me. It fits well with the times not being correct for Etta's disappearing.

 

If I'm right, there should be something in the HoAW thats connects Saga to Hanna. A drawing. A book. Something. if Saga draws her future before she walks it, that is. Pleassseeee someone find something like that! lol


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#15 khh

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 22:28

I Also think only dragons can shift. And I find a lot of resemblance between "Walking" and "Shifting". After all Saga is "The Girl Who Walk Between Worlds" - by the name of interlude 3.

Wait. Did Cortez tell April he couldn't open a shift? Or just that he can't open a shift for her to pass in?

When someone like Westhouse, which is not a dragon, I hope, cross between the worlds it made up a whole mess.

I don't think Cortez addressed his ability to Shift, one way to the other. I think he did his iconic skirting of the issue. However he did say that he'd met Vestrum Tobias Grensret back when he was an Istrum, and we're pretty sure that Tobias is no Shifter.

 

I think the conversation you're thinking of is when Tobias told April that it was her Shift, and that Cortez couldn't have passed through it [meaning that specific Shift].


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April Ryan is my friend,
Every sorrow she can mend.
When I visit her dark realm,
Does it simply overwhelm.


#16 khh

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 11:32

So, I had a thought on this.

 

What if it is in fact Etta who is April Ryan. Wouldn't that make sense? The spirit of the New White of the Kin refers to Saga as "Sister-Daughter", but in Dreamfall she referred to April simply as "Sister". It's Etta who's voiced by Sarah Hamilton. I'm not sure that we quite understand how the house works, but I don't get the impression that they're supposed to live a lifetime when they go wandering. Saga said she went walking for a few days. But the House is apparently quite strange, and the Balance does as it pleases. In the memories we see in the wards they talk about cracks in the house, and what if those cracks are actually openings to the real world. And what if Etta accidentally entered the real world, and became a mortal, rather than doing what they normally do. There could still be some magical link between Saga and Etta, especially considering the locket, which is why Saga can vaguely remember things that happened to her. And after her death, Etta could reappear into the Dragon of Spring, with new and expanded memories. That might explain the split as well, as Etta has certainly passed on a great deal of herself to Saga, but it's got a more mundane explanation than the words which Abnaxus cannot understand implies.

 

I don't know how likely this is. I mean, there are problems with this theory too. But it might be an interesting subversion of expectations, one that was hidden in plain sight from day one.


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April Ryan is my friend,
Every sorrow she can mend.
When I visit her dark realm,
Does it simply overwhelm.


#17 inspector

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 12:53

Awesome theories. This is good explanations for Saga's shifts in Interlude 2 abnd 3. Also Uncle Galath cares for Saga so he can be Red Dragon.

I have a theory that April/Saga is a spirit of The First Guardian. This is a reason why Balance didnt allow April to became 13th Guardian.

 

I also think that this Uncle Galath is Cortez. This thought came to me when his name was first mentioned


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#18 Loliloli

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 18:17

OMGOMGOMG
I think I understand now this daughter - sister relationships!!
THIS MAKES SO MUCH SENSE NOW!
 
We use the word reborn a lot.
But - who is the mother of someone who is reborn? I would say - him! himself!
That might not be always the case, but at least with the white dragon it probably is! in TLJ you see in the first game scene that the Old White Dragon is the mother of the White Dragon Reborn which is herself! (I assume that she laid that egg which probably yield the White Dragon Reborn)
This is probably not the same process every time as April didn't gave birth to anyone and were still reborned. But with the White Dragon - if i'm correct the white Dragon Reborn is the child of the White Dragon.
So, when Etta is reborn as the White Dragon Reborn - Etta herself is the mother of her reborn self!
That would make Saga the sister of the current White Dragon Reborn, because they share the same mother, aaaaaaannnndddd in the same time - Saga would be her daughter - because it is still Etta - after all.
So the Current white kin - which visits Saga in ghost/spirit form - is actually the mother and the sister of Saga!
 
tl;dr: the White Mother Reborn is actually the daughter of the old White Dragon Mother - but they are also both Etta. she is the daughter of herself. what makes her the sister and mother of saga!!!
 
On other subject: After thinking about this a bit - I don't see a problem with that Etta's/White Dragon Reborn's spirit just appear in the living room while Etta is at the next room this whole time. As I think time works differently in the HoAW... And her spirit might be visiting from another time completely and I don't see a problem with this... its like in this movies when someone goes back in time and can meet his former self...
 
I believe this is the real deal. Etta and Saga are the White Dragon's and April's spirit respectively. each time they are leaving or "walking" from the HoAW they reborn in the worlds of Stark and Arcadia. That fits well with:

  • April is half human half dragon (Magnus is human, Etta is the White Dragon)
  • April has been reborned.
  • The White Mother Reborn is the daughter of Etta, of the White Mother. They are both Etta "walking" different lives.
  • The White Mother Reborn is the sister of saga, and her mother.
  • Saga seems to remember being April in a vague way. She mention "walking" as a possibility to why she have this memories - when looking at the drawing of crow.

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#19 WhiteKin

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 18:19

When I looked at the Interlude III screen, it hit me, that Saga could be the reborn April. Abnaxus talks about the girl who walks between worlds, referring to April. An then Interlude III is called 'the girl who walks between worlds', this time referring to Saga. They can both open shifts, they draw, Saga has distant memories of Aprils Journey.

Furthermore, there are some parallels between the white dragon and Etta/Saga: The white dragon gets a child, then dies before her child has grown up (right?). Etta has a daughter and disappears when Saga is still really young.
 

Hm, I guess I have to replay everything sometime + reread your theories. My head is aching now :lol:


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#20 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 20:43

I've pondered the possibility that Etta and Saga might both be...parts of April...? After that whole bit with Abnaxus. Especially since Etta has Sarah's voice. But...parts of that don't seem to make sense to me. I mean...I get that the HoAW is full of timefoolery, but I'm a bit unsure how she would be reborn as an adult who is pregnant with the other part of her. Seems...weird. And Etta seems to be from somewhere else in the multiverse entirely...maybe? I'm really sure if Etta works as being April. 

 

I don't know. I'm... really struggling with this one. 


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