22 replies to this topic

[chrisis]

Hey all,

 

I was just looking... and there isn't a Book 5 speculation thread anywhere yet - even though Book 4 has been out for roughly 20 hours already

 

So anyway, what are your predictions for the finale? Just so you know: Full Book 1-4 spoilers ahead, so if you didn't play through Book 4 yet (really, why didn't you??? It's amazing!), go away NOW, finish it, and come back later!

 

 

 

My preeliminary speculations following, note: I don't have any inside knowledge so it's all pure guesswork

 

- Zoe will be mostly in Stark (after book 4 is Arcadia only)

- I have no idea what's going on with Kian and the Resistance

- It will start with Interlude 4 and Saga shifted to somewhere in Stark (maybe even somewhere close to wherever Zoe really woke up at the end of Book 4)

- We'll finally learn who Lady Alvane was, and who Saga is

- We'll see Dreamtime again

 

And then I'm lost... realised I'm not really good at speculating at all... anyway, whoever is better feel free to let your speculations run wild!

[Guyra]

I'm really wondering about Hanna, myself. What piece of the puzzle is she?

• I took it she was at best Dreamer, like Zoë, and not a Shifter, like April. Like Zoë, she could only get to Arcadia whilst connected to the Dreamer.
• While April's first shifts were during sleep, and dreams are in general a link to the other world, she physically travels there with whatever she has on - if Hanna was a Shifter, she would basically travel to Arcadia with the Dreamer still attached to her face.
• I find it likely that Hanna isn't really a Dreamer, but has gotten into Arcadia because the threshold between the two world has been lowered. Perhaps she is someone who might've become the Dreamer if not for Zoë, and have therefore more easily dreamt herself past the weakened threshold between the two worlds?

I'm also very curious as to where Zoë wakes up now. It's possible that Propast doesn't even exist - it was being hinted at already in the first book. In that case, she has now woken up into the real world. Propast might have been reality, or her dream, or it might have been the place you go when you connect to the Dreamer. I find the latter more likely.

• ​If it had all been just a dream, some of the characters would have been completely unnecessary to include in the game.
• If Propast is where you go when you connect to the Dreamer, that would mean everyone there would be actual people. Some of the inhabitants can be heard speculating whether they are already in the dream. And there are signs everywhere telling her to wake up.
• Wati doesn't want to kill Zoë in case they get another Faith incident, I guess, but just letting her roam free also seems highly unlikely. Why only give her amnesia, when they could've given her different memories instead, which would have made her less likely to go off and try to find out what happened to her. Already at the start of the game she was questioning Wati.
• In the first Dreamfall, Zoë always went through Winter to get to Arcadia. Faith was the experiment that laid the ground work for the Dreamer, and Winter was created as a new world between worlds. This makes it seem to me that Propast may very well be the same thing: A world between worlds. It would then make more sense that Zoë is able to get to Arcadia from here, as she would always go through such a proxy earlier. Basically, the world of Propast is similar to Winter, or Winter rebuilt by Wati after Faith was no longer there to control it.

[CosmicD]

Yeah, I'm logically entangled, I can't really make heads or tails now from all this. Book 4 definitely was the most "tlj" ish chapter maybe from whole dreamfall, but you see that scene with Zoë in the hospital room. It seems to be always returning to taht, even after the bomb went off in propast it seems like that was a missed attempt for her to wake up but she diesn't, she dreamt on, about books 3 and 4. 

But if she's a dreamer, and lux dreams of all things. Are the storytime and the divide, and stark and arcadia all dreams ? Which metaphysical construct has the biggest rank order. Is storytime the construct of the universe , or.. is lux also dreaming about the story time being the construct of the universe, and if lux would stop dreaming, would all of the multiverse (uncluding the house of all worlds realm) stop existing ? 

And so, where would Lux wake up to ? "the multiverse" plane of existence ? together with nox ? Are they then a species of gods existing in another universe dreaming up all we've seen in tlj and dreamfall so far ?

If Zoë is a dreamer , does  she belong to the same "multiverse" as nox and lux ? Is the storytime somehow the limbic system of lux ? And why would Zoë wake up in Casablanca again. 

So at this point in theory, my metaphoric explanation is a bit like this:

If lux is the first dreamer who also dreams up the entire existence, and Zoë is a part of that, April was part of it, Saga, Etta, magnus, crow.. the whole bunch... Lux makes dreamers and shifters, they are some sort of synaptic messengers that communicate between all the plains of existence lux makes up in her dreams, and these messangers sort out cohesion and make the balance right on a neural level, and this is translated into the story that we play. And then maybe one dreamer is augmented to live in this or that plain. Some live in stark, some in arcadia, some in the storytime etc. And maybe the waking up of zoë means that she is awake in stark, but cannot be fully awake in arcadia, thats why she dreams herself there. Shifters are other sort of messenger RNA in lux' brain that are more mobile, because they can be awake in both places. Zoë only in one, she's like a "budget shifter"

I know it's simplistic but that's how I make it out rightnow. Now it's very exciting to look forward to book 5, to see what she'll do in Stark (if Propast even existed in the first place).

[Uniteatteri]

- It will start with Interlude 4 and Saga shifted to somewhere in Stark (maybe even somewhere close to wherever Zoe really woke up at the end of Book 4)

 

Book 4 ended with an interlude (or to be exact, the Interlude III was after the book 4). Thus probably the Book 5 can't really start with one, it would feel strange for the players doing the books back to back having two consecutive interludes.

 

So, if there will be the fourth interlude (there must be, unless Saga enters the main plot) it has to bee located mid-book between chapters 12 and 13. If not, the Saga story will be complete in the epilogue.

[Pawlo_86]

Chapter 12 - Zoe and Kian, Zoe in both Stark (Casablanca or Mumbai) and Arcadia, Kian in Arcadia,
Chapter 13 - Kian and Zoe.Arcadia. Tower ceremony. Prophet revealed. Kian vs Vamon. Zoe in Storytime.

[Vardark]

Chapter 12 - Zoe and Kian, Zoe in both Stark (Casablanca or Mumbai) and Arcadia, Kian in Arcadia,
Chapter 13 - Kian and Zoe.Arcadia. Tower ceremony. Prophet revealed. Kian vs Vamon. Zoe in Storytime.

Definitely something like this. Zoë has a showdown with the big bads of WATIcorp (Samantha Gilmore?), who reveals part of their plan, before being arrested or something. Zoë realizes things are about to go down at the Tower, and goes there. During the ceremony, Kian and Hami will arrive to arrest the Emissary, after Kian told Hami the truth. Battle ensues. The Prophet creates some sort of portal to Storytime (for some reason), and Zoë follows for one final battle. Kian and Zoë wins their respective battles, the Azadi leaves Marcuria and the Dream lives on. The end.

[the red of the kin]

Spoiler

 

- It might be that stark and Arcadia are reunited

- Zoe and Kian must face the thief of dreams. I'm sure we'll see Kian back at the Tower in Marcuria, where he'll face Vamon

- Zoe will kick some Wati ass, finally

- the thief of dreams will nonetheless succeed in his intent

- saga intervenes and saves the day

Ah and we get Benrime back ok!???!!!
Damn I miss the Journeyman's Inn!!!

[Adam Jensen]

Lots of speculation... for everyone? Aaaaa let's not go there.

 

Kian will be accompanied by Crow. Zoe will go all metaphysical (not looking forward to it, but that is the direction the story seems to be heading in, unfortunately). It will turn out Falk Friedmann was working for Helena Chang.

 

Those are predictions, not necessarily hopes. As for those, I mostly hope we'll get proper closure, at least regarding the themes started in original Dreamfall - mainly the whole Azadi/WATI conspiracy. We know a bit more after Book 4, granted, but it's still very little.

[OptoNick]

Still sticking to the plan where Zoe and Vagabond should just get shitfaced with whiskey like Brian

[Kari2]

Hahaha. The Vagabond may not remember Zoe - remember something as been effecting his memories.

[the red of the kin]

Alcohol! X°D

[Barentity]

I think it will be called Revenge (or maybe Retribution or Redemption): Kian will get revenge on Vamon, Likho will get revenge on Kian, Zoë will get revenge on WatiCorp, and Klacks will attempt to get revenge on April.

[lunitaire]

Still sticking to the plan where Zoe and Vagabond should just get shitfaced with whiskey like Brian

 

 

Hahaha. The Vagabond may not remember Zoe - remember something as been effecting his memories.

 

Based on Zoe's comment in Abnaxus's Abode about how oddly difficult it is to remember Brian even after regaining her memories, I could totally imagine her showing up to Dreamtime with plans to get shitfaced with the Vagabond only to find Brian already there, completely shitfaced and no Vagabond in sight.

[the red of the kin]

Zoe will get shitfaced with Brian, and Enu, in the livingroom. Afterwards Enu and Zoe make out.

Likho and Kian will be making coffee in the kitchen, where there are knives, so they can feel all macho and warrior. 
Everybody locked Magnus in the basement because he's too whiney, but they go down there from time to time to bring him food. Etta? Who'ìs Etta?

Reza and Klacks play with Saga's toys in her room.

 

April's sleeping in the attic, since shes dead-tired! hehe...hehehe

 

[johnny_gamble]

My reckoning...
- Kian finds himself severely conflicted depending on your choices. He'll have to choose whether to support the magicals in their escape (and inevitable victory because they severely outnumber azadi) or whether to 'stand down' and let the tower be built (on the condition that Hami shuts down Vamon and promises to run the Azadi properly). Kian either becomes a (successful) rebel, or his faith to the goddess takes over. Not sure which one will result in a 'good' ending when attached with Zoe's events. If you chose to bring Licho then you'll possibly take over the rebels rather than the Azadi/magicals duopoly... if not, you'll have less insight and you might have to face off with Licho at some point (with the requirement that you defeat him, crushing the rebels).
- Zoe... was just dreaming and she's now back to the end of Dreamfall. However, her dreams were real, and everything she did will have consequences. I think Zoe's story will end and she'll find her place in the balance. She has a memory of the yaga (the dark) and also the light that was given to her... the memory of the yaga isn't necessarily a bad thing if managed properly. She'll possibly stay within people's dreams forever, so that Wati Corp's tinkering with dreams...etc gets shafted by her.
- Saga will shift to Arcadia as a reborn April Ryan. The house protected her when she was killed by the Azadi. She's a dragon and needs to grow so that she isn't vulnerable when she escapes.

Others:
- Klacks does a dodgy deal with Vamon but they both get shafted by Hami.
- The Rolling Man... ends up being Saga's uncle (a family of dragons... Cortez, Saga and Westhouse).
- The Bandu all survived because they're really adorable.
- Bip plays a role in saving the magicals.
- Just because Wati Corp's evil, doesn't mean Wonkers is. He's loyal and Zoe will get to see him again.
- Mr London will choke (like the poms always do in the end) and lose a fight to the guy with the guitar who is 'just a singer songwriter' after they have a dispute about territory and the singer songwriter refuses to move.

[Sithoid]

I just checked all the Kickstarter stretch goals looking for clues... Here's what we haven't seen yet:

 

1. Library with lore and a librarian
2. The House of Dreams Emporium
3. Emma's gallery with concept art and fan art
4. An interactive graphic novel with recap
5. A commentary track

 

4 and 5 are obviously "behind-the-scenes", but maybe there still are some clues.

First of all, 2 and 3 imply that we'll return to Propast, which seems to contradict the "all a dream" theory. This seems weird to me - I was actually hoping for the WATI HQ. Well, that might be some food for thoughts. Is it possible that we'll even see Emma herself?

 

Then we have number 1. The Abode was actually the perfect candidate, but there weren't any readable books, let alone a librarian (no, Brian, you can't!). Maybe we'll find this library in the Tower where the Azadi have all the magical and historical volumes locked up? Or maybe one of the characters will even travel to the Dark Library - which means we'll probably find out what happened to the White Kin after all?

 

Of course, RTG could've just cut this stuff out or saved it for the Ultimate edition -- it's probably easy to insert those places into previous chapters, given that the doors and signs are all there. Well, it's just another piece of speculation

[Sophia]

I'm still hoping Wonkers will play a major role... I have been suspecting him since Dreamfall. I mean how can a company like Waticorp release an innocent little companion without him being a spy, at the very least?

[Kianismybae]

WONKERS IS THE DARK. All is his fault lol

[Kianismybae]

Lmao I just think about a legion of wonkers like soldiers.

[Fristron]

I wonder how they're going to handle unveiling of the Prophet. My money is still on Brian, but so many things make him obvious candidate by now it does seem a little like a red herring... well, if he is, they better have a damn good explanation for Saga's drawing of him and the prologue in Dreamfall.

 

Zoe might have been dreaming, but I refuse to believe Propast was only a dream. Too much time spent there, too much story put into it. While it's curious that those "internal" decisions seem to be of a major importance for the game (do we want to regain memories, what are we looking for etc.), I think Propast does exist, it is in Stark, and Zoe did live there. Possibly while still dreaming in Casablanca.

To my mind it goes like this: Zoe's soul can travel in a material form, though it might be sensed by some she's not completely there. In Dreamfall, she was in Stark all the time, but her soul sometimes travelled to Winter and to Arcadia. In Chapters, she is precisely in one place all the time - Stark, Casablanca - but her embodied soul roams both Stark and Arcadia. Notice how her body disappears from Mira's warehouse in Book Three. She wasn't completely there. Otherwise her body would remain, as it remained in Dreamfall. But it doesn't mean the place didn't exist, just the same as her dreaming herself to Marcuria didn't mean Marcuria doesn't exist. It's the whole out of body experience thing. You don't need to cross the Divide for it to take place.

 

 

 

Chapter 12 - Zoe and Kian, Zoe in both Stark (Casablanca or Mumbai) and Arcadia, Kian in Arcadia,
Chapter 13 - Kian and Zoe.Arcadia. Tower ceremony. Prophet revealed. Kian vs Vamon. Zoe in Storytime.

 

I think this one is pretty much on spot. Possibly with an interlude in between, with Saga leaving her house and going to one of the worlds. 90% meeting her uncle, who I dare to dream is Cortez. I also think Book Five might start with Tower ceremony, and the confrontation of Kian and Prophet (which is going to be this one's final confrontation, IMO, with Vamon being simply a henchman) will take place in the second chunk of Kian's story.