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Book Four - Art and tagline discussion

Book Four concept art

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#101 Pawlo_86

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 17:45

Two monks in Tibet wanted to unleash Undreaming for sure. Cortez wanted Brian in Arcadia. Well he did good work in TLJ. I think that Cortez's pocket reduced influences from Undreaming.

#102 toremygg

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 20:49

My theory, in bullet form. In the Black House my self-chosen title was "conspiracy theorist"... This is assumption, not fact. Not everything is very well based in the lore. In spoiler tags:
Spoiler

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#103 KeremcanTarhan

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 20:27

I'm going to add to the speculations but I heard the new information two hours ago and my thoughts are confused as hell so bear with me.

 

So, those two lines talk about darkness,void, what was before all and "things" in it that tell those two sentences. How can things be in void, nothingness?

 

Well, in both the greek and mesopotamian mythology, the universe before creation, the void is described more as a void than total nothingness.

 

In some interpretation of Greek creation myths, the chaos is described as a disorderly jumble of all things.

 

And in Sumerian creation myth, Enuma Elish, the chaos or Apşu(Abzu) is described as the deity of freshwater that existed before all and a void in which demons lived. These demons are described as animals with human parts or humans with animal parts which show us a disorderly existence. God Enlil destroys this void to bring order but then the wife of Apşu and mother of gods Tiamat(Deity of saltwater and personification of chaos) is furious and tries to destroy the gods. Marduk(Enlil himself in some myths) kill Tiamat and bring order to the existence. And he groups all gods in groups of THREE and place them in the stars thus creating the astrological signs (12 signs 36 gods).

 

To me, this story seem very relevant because these two sentences also talk about stars and their brightness and how everything "became apart" aka orderly. 

 

But in TLJ universe, chaos and order is one of the principal dichotomies and thus one cannot exist without the other. It's very likely that Chaos hates the "brightness" of the stars aka order and works to destroy it. 

 

I'm extremely confused about storytime. It seems it should exist outside the first dream because dreams are stories and Storytime is the place where all stories exist and/or linked. 

 

However the creation of the first dream and the coming of light is also how time came to exist and stories cannot exist without time so it's also dependent on the first dream. Maybe they have a more complicated relationship than "one is inside the other." Maybe they exist outside of each other but dependant on each other.

 

The facebook post also talk about one becoming three. I highly doubt it refers to the Stark,Arcadia and Storytime as I think Storytime is completely superior to both Stark and Arcadia. But I also doubt that it refers to a creator being being split in three aspects because even in darkness there were more than one thing as proven by the subject of these posts being "we".

 

So maybe it refers to the creative forces. In the darkness, there was only chaos. But then order (or light) came. And finally the balance which prevents one from overwhelming the other. Because while pure chaos is a jumble of all existence without order and is timeless, pure order can be seen a freeze in time which is indistinguishable from timelessness.

 

So is Nox the Undreaming? Quite possible as Lux is the light,the dream and order so that a being of darkness and chaos would want to destroy it.

 

Where do the Draic kin fit in all of this? I have literally no idea.

 

Who is Saga and what relations does it have to Zoe? Yes Zoe not April, because I'm more interested in their relevance. Saga means story in Nordic languages and Zoe means life. So I'm going to go crazy with the speculations and propose that Zoe dreamed Saga into existence as the reincarnation of April. What evidence do I have other than the names? Very little, but I think the birth of Saga and Zoe being trapped in Storytime correspond don't they?

 

One last thing, in Norse mythology Ragnarök, the event which the gods die and the worlds are destroyed, is not seen as an end but the destruction necessary for the creation of something new and better. The death of God Baldr, god of light, is what sets Ragnarök in motions and in Völuspa, a Völva(seeress) describes that after Ragnarök, Baldr will revive with his brother and usher the world in an age of abundance. 

 

So perhaps the whole saga will end with a destruction and a recreation. Perhaps the reunification of the worlds or perhaps even light and dark.


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#104 TheDreamfallen

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 01:39

I'm extremely confused about storytime. It seems it should exist outside the first dream because dreams are stories and Storytime is the place where all stories exist and/or linked. 

 

However the creation of the first dream and the coming of light is also how time came to exist and stories cannot exist without time so it's also dependent on the first dream. Maybe they have a more complicated relationship than "one is inside the other." Maybe they exist outside of each other but dependant on each other.

 

I also thought that the storytime must exist outside the first dream, as the source of all other stories (including Lux's). If it is in fact inside Lux's dream, then it may be a place set within to hold and manage all of the other dreams within the First Dream. Every other story within Lux's Dream, passes through the Storytime on it's way in, or out of the world. Like a server where every dream/story is contained before it is sent to each individuals "PC". 

 

As you say, it could, and probably is, more complex than that however.

 

I like your other thoughts as well. I can't help but draw parallels to various creation myths as well. Many involve the ordering of a pre-existing "chaos", and I'm hoping we get a glimpse into how this world was created in the next book!


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April's dead.

 

My blog, (including reviews on DFC and other games and tech): https://gexpblog.wor.../tag/dreamfall/


#105 Shitbot

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 12:53

Or, OR

 

Maybe none of this matters and Ragnar is making this up as he goes along?

 

:ph34r:



#106 TheDreamfallen

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:08

Or, OR

 

Maybe none of this matters and Ragnar is making this up as he goes along?

 

:ph34r:

 

Hence the delays between Books. He needs to make Book 4 up still!


April's dead.

 

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#107 KeremcanTarhan

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 00:15

I also thought that the storytime must exist outside the first dream, as the source of all other stories (including Lux's). If it is in fact inside Lux's dream, then it may be a place set within to hold and manage all of the other dreams within the First Dream. Every other story within Lux's Dream, passes through the Storytime on it's way in, or out of the world. Like a server where every dream/story is contained before it is sent to each individuals "PC". 

 

As you say, it could, and probably is, more complex than that however.

 

I like your other thoughts as well. I can't help but draw parallels to various creation myths as well. Many involve the ordering of a pre-existing "chaos", and I'm hoping we get a glimpse into how this world was created in the next book!

 

It's interesting that a lot of creation myths contain the ordering of chaos. There is a theory that ties a lot of these mythologies(mesopotamian,greek,scandinavian,slavic,vedic etc.) to an earlier Proto Indo-European mythlogy that describes the creation of the universe as the ordering of chaos and the fight between a hero and a dragon-lizard(tiamat in Sumerian, typhon in Greek, Jormungand in Scandinavian and even Leviathan in biblical mythology). Considering how the duality of chaos and order plays a major part in TLJ universe, I think we will see more connections with these mythologies as well as dreamtime mythos.


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#108 Vanya-illin

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 18:21

It's interesting that a lot of creation myths contain the ordering of chaos. There is a theory that ties a lot of these mythologies(mesopotamian,greek,scandinavian,slavic,vedic etc.) to an earlier Proto Indo-European mythlogy that describes the creation of the universe as the ordering of chaos and the fight between a hero and a dragon-lizard(tiamat in Sumerian, typhon in Greek, Jormungand in Scandinavian and even Leviathan in biblical mythology). Considering how the duality of chaos and order plays a major part in TLJ universe, I think we will see more connections with these mythologies as well as dreamtime mythos.

Given that the division of the Earth into Stark and Arcadia took place around 10,000 BC, that is squarely in the Proto Indo-European period.

 

<Edit>

 

Or before it. Let's see, according to The Secret World, we are in the Fourth Age... So maybe the Third Age was the Stark culture right after the split, when they still had advanced knowledge and technology from the unified world. The Stark-Sentinel's loss of influence may have come from whatever catastrophe ended the Third Age (some people never learn...)



#109 Indrid Cold

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 20:14

Or before it. Let's see, according to The Secret World, we are in the Fourth Age... So maybe the Third Age was the Stark culture right after the split, when they still had advanced knowledge and technology from the unified world. The Stark-Sentinel's loss of influence may have come from whatever catastrophe ended the Third Age (some people never learn...)

I'm not very familiar with TSW but I'm pretty sure it's not in the same universe as TLJ.



#110 Shitbot

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 21:17

Can we make a separate forum for headcanon? I keep clicking this, thinking there's some actual news about the game...


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#111 khh

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 21:42

Can we make a separate forum for headcanon? I keep clicking this, thinking there's some actual news about the game...

Well, it's a discussion forum not a news forum. If you're only looking for actual official news you're probably better off sticking to twitter and facebook.


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April Ryan is my friend,
Every sorrow she can mend.
When I visit her dark realm,
Does it simply overwhelm.


#112 Thundex

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 21:57

Given that the division of the Earth into Stark and Arcadia took place around 10,000 BC, that is squarely in the Proto Indo-European period.

 

<Edit>

 

Or before it. Let's see, according to The Secret World, we are in the Fourth Age... So maybe the Third Age was the Stark culture right after the split, when they still had advanced knowledge and technology from the unified world. The Stark-Sentinel's loss of influence may have come from whatever catastrophe ended the Third Age (some people never learn...)

The only problem I have with comparing the universe to The secret world (they are connected with bingo drinks!) is the time difference. The Secret World I believe is set 200 years before the events in TLJ. However I could be wrong :P



#113 Ringtail

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 23:20

Yeah, I've never played The Secret World, but I think the Bingo! presence in the game is more of an in-joke than an actual shared universe.

#114 TheDreamfallen

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 01:06

There are also Stark and Arcadia posters in one of the trailers. I think it is just Ragnar's way of giving a nod to his other work. Like in Dreamfall there are books that have TLJ cover on them.


April's dead.

 

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#115 Vanya-illin

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 18:25

There are also Stark and Arcadia posters in one of the trailers. I think it is just Ragnar's way of giving a nod to his other work. Like in Dreamfall there are books that have TLJ cover on them.

The poster appears in the cut-scene sequence when creating a new character, and there is a Dreamfall poster or game box (seemed small for the former and large for the latter) on the floor as your character cleans up their destroyed apartment after learning to control their new powers. And there is a Moca Loco coffee shop in London. So yes, not really the same world.

 

Still, my other point stands: the Divide occurred around 10000 BC with a highly advanced culture. Said culture obviously went smash, and civilization re-emerged a few thousand years later.



#116 Thundex

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 06:29

I wouldn't trust the secret world...It's made with dreamworld technology! Anyways I am going down a bunny trail so I'll stop. :D Back on topic!


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#117 MisterMetropolis

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 02:03

Just realized that the designs on the dark being look the like the ones on the Vagabond.


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"But even if we don't reach that lofty goal this time around, we hope to some day still be able to tell this story. April's story, all of it. All that remains of it. Because it needs to be told. And you all deserve to hear it. And we would love to share it with you." - RTG, March 1, 2013

 

"Even if we don't get to $2 million, we will still look into ways of making The Longest Journey Home a reality...some day. It's a story we all want to tell, and we won't let it die.- RTG, March 9, 2013


#118 TheDreamfallen

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 21:08

Just realized that the designs on the dark being look the like the ones on the Vagabond.

 

I noticed the same thing in my latest playthrough. On the dark being it looks like it is part of his/her skin/face and the Vagabond's looks like a tattoo. So maybe the Vagabond has tattoos like this dark being/undreaming(?) for some reason that connects him to the dreams or storytime.


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April's dead.

 

My blog, (including reviews on DFC and other games and tech): https://gexpblog.wor.../tag/dreamfall/


#119 Kianismybae

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 02:17

Go straight to Ragnar's twitter... TWO NEW SHOTS OF BOOK FOR. ONE FOR  A  TEEN SAGA AND ANOTHER FOR  OUR BEAUTIFUL ZÖE <3  I'M SCREAMING FRIENDS


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#120 Tamahome

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 10:04

Funny thing about the screenshot, Saga's hair went from blonde to black, just like certain someone. 







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