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#1 Usagi

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 22:38

Hello, fellow dreamers :)

 

I admire the effort spent in DreamFall. It is both massive and meaningful, which is something only a very few studios do in the whole industry. I always wanted to thank Mr.Ragnar and the team for it, and wish that only 1 or 2 other studios could approach games like RTG do, life will be much better.

 

I was thinking about a way to experience the Whole DF. I wanted to see how the whole game would change if, like, I left Reza or chose different career. I think it will be hard and time consuming to try all these interesting choices by replaying the game. So why not allow players to skip the parts that are not affected by certain choices ?

 

Imagine a timeline of DF, with only the impactful decisions visible on it. Actually there would be 2 timelines; one for Zoe and one for Alvane. Now not every decision affects every consequence, right? So in the timeline, I can change any choice I want. All the 5 book choices are visible in front of me. Each choice is represented by a thumbnail, short description and a group of options to take. I pick the choices I want to change, chose the new decisions then play the game from any point in time I want to see how the events unfold from now on.

 

For example, I change some choices from Book1 and 2, then jump to the middle of Book3 and see how it looks now after the changes. Then I go change those same choices from B1 and 2, and go to the same point of B3 to see how it was affected.

 

Think of it as time machine!

 

Now this could be hard. But I belive RTG must have a structure for player choices inside the game. I persume it is a tree, apparently! And of course some events are not available with certain choices. So what I imagine is a tool to alter this choice structure, then load the game from anytime we want and continue palying. Maybe players can have a list of save files, each is right before an impactful / interesting choice (yes, tens of save files each is named after the choice it loads to). Also I think RTG must have away to visualize all these choices and relations between them as part of the design process. I don't ask them to give it to us of course :D, just it might help with the Time Machine!

 

This will be very helpful to experience the whole game, in a fast and free way.

 

So, do you think this tool will be fun ? Any critiques are welcome :)

 

Thank you.

 



#2 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 03:01

Hi Usagi (and welcome to the forums!) :)

 

I'm not entirely sure how RTG has the choice system structured. I don't know nearly enough about coding and game design to even begin to make a guess as to how all of that is done on their end. I kind of feel like what you're proposing would be really difficult to implement, though. Especially depending on how little and/or subtle some consequences may be. 

 

I'm sure there are definitely people who would really love something like that. I just don't think it would be feasible for the team to put together. They're a really small team and this would likely be a lot of work to create something that fundamentally changes the experience they're currently crafting.

 

I understand the impulse to want to know how every combination of choices plays out, believe me. That's part of why I've enjoyed reading what other people have written about their experiences and watching streams/Let's Plays of the game. But based on what Ragnar has at least said...they're crafting this experience to be played as a cohesive experience in which you make choices and then see (and have to live with) the consequences. I mean...clearly they're not going to stop people from going back and changing choices or replaying to see different outcomes, but I don't think they would want to make something that would let people "peak behind the curtain" that much so to speak. 

 

Personally...again, while I am really curious about how all of the choices branch and twine together, I feel like something like what you're proposing would kind of ruin the experience for me. Though that's just me. I'm sure others will disagree. 


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#3 Usagi

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 20:18

Hello Erika, and thank you for the welcome :)

 

As you said, people are already trying to read other's posts, watch videos etc which are not as good as playing the game .. so why not play the game instead ? well, because the game takes too long .. so how to make it shorter ? by giving an option (not mandatory) to skip the non-story parts (trivial choices, running around, puzzles ..etc), and jump to the consequences.

 

Sorry I might not have clarified this, I tried to focus on the idea in my post. I would by no means ask for something like this here and now. In fact, the best time for this suggestion to be valuable is after people play the whole game. The part about tree structure and stuff are just speculations (based on my little experience with game programming). It could even be done in the form of an interactive novel. That's why I mentioned the desing document they are probably using. It could even be done in the form of an online app, where people can change the choices and get a text description of how their choices would have affected the game .. something like a text simulator for the game :D

 

In the end it is their call, we just dream :D

 

Thanks.



#4 DiskJunky

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 12:27

I know Tina had plans on drawing up an Excel spreadsheet with the choice/consequences mapped out and from what I know of the save game files, it should be a copy/paste job to preserve them. But you'd have to write a custom tool/script to help with loading/restoring specific save game files based on choices. Doable but would take a fair bit of work and probably more easily done if you could get multiple people on board to help break up the task a bit.

 

At least that's how I could see it done anyway.


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#5 Morten

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 14:05

We've actually already played around with the though of creating something similar to what you are proposing. What we've been thinking is that we (at some point) want to add some kind of tool to customize a StoryFlags file (where you're choices are stored). Most likely this will be in the form of a web-app on our website, or a downloadable tool that we'll release.

Through this tool/app you'd be able to choose from all choices across Books, to display the choice-tree and finally be able to download a customized file for you to import into the game.

 

Of course, this is not something we're currently working on. It's just something that we've thought of as something that would be really cool to do.

I can't give any guarantees on when/if this will be released, but surely it would be quite some time after we're already finished with the game itself. :)

 

Thanks for all your kind words and support. We highly appreciate it!


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#6 Usagi

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 21:36

We've actually already played around with the though of creating something similar to what you are proposing. What we've been thinking is that we (at some point) want to add some kind of tool to customize a StoryFlags file (where you're choices are stored). Most likely this will be in the form of a web-app on our website, or a downloadable tool that we'll release.

Through this tool/app you'd be able to choose from all choices across Books, to display the choice-tree and finally be able to download a customized file for you to import into the game.

 

Of course, this is not something we're currently working on. It's just something that we've thought of as something that would be really cool to do.

I can't give any guarantees on when/if this will be released, but surely it would be quite some time after we're already finished with the game itself. :)

 

Thanks for all your kind words and support. We highly appreciate it!

 

This is very nice to hear. Thank you for your time :)


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#7 magic88889

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 22:06

Personally I would love just a map of some kind, showing how everything is connected.  Some of these choices (even the big ones) have some really subtle differences, and I would love to see how everything fits together. 



#8 Tina

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 07:23

I know Tina had plans on drawing up an Excel spreadsheet with the choice/consequences mapped out and from what I know of the save game files, it should be a copy/paste job to preserve them. But you'd have to write a custom tool/script to help with loading/restoring specific save game files based on choices. Doable but would take a fair bit of work and probably more easily done if you could get multiple people on board to help break up the task a bit.

 

At least that's how I could see it done anyway.

"Plan" is not exactly the right word. It was more a "wouldn't that be cool?" idea. Which got thrown away quite a while ago, especially after the parts where there are more than two choices :P

 

(I also "planned" to play through all kinds of choices. Now I'm sticking with 2 storylines, and I haven't even played the "other" storyline of Book 3 yet, so... [should probably do that soon])


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#9 toremygg

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 07:38

Now I'm sticking with 2 storylines, and I haven't even played the "other" storyline of Book 3 yet, so... [should probably do that soon])

This is me, too.


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#10 khh

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 08:15

Me three, actually. Though for me it's cause the saves got too confusing to deal with. Especially with Steam Cloud randomly adding back in deleted saves.


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#11 toremygg

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 08:29

Yeah, no, I had to disable Steam Cloud and do local backups instead.



#12 Tina

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 10:22

I haven't tried to remove saves (or even checked what my Steam Cloud settings are). But I also haven't gone back to change choices. So it's okay to deal with them. The saves are in order, for each book. The only thing messing with the savegames is if I go back to try and check something out. Like trying to help finding the last painting etc (which I did during my Book 3 playthrough, while waiting for hints to solve a puzzle) :)

 

But, for me, it's lack of time that has made me not play through more times. Although, if I'd had the time, then the saves would likely be a bigger problem :)


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#13 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:49

I still haven't finished my alternate playthrough of Book 2. ...Or fixed my saves for Book 3. I really should do **THAT** ASAP. >>; Whoops.

 

At least this thread reminded me. 

 

Eve was also working on her Transcript, but I think that got somewhat put on ice between it being an enormous undertaking with a crazy number of little details and changes and life being busy. 


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#14 Limerick

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 22:56

This idea is certainly doable. It has been done many times with Visual Novels.  It, of course, also depends on how complex consequences get.

 

An example of this is here: http://i.imgur.com/5aUoQnF.jpg

 

My understanding is that Vita version of Fate/Stay Night Realta Nua contained such a setup, discussion of that is here: http://forums.nrvnqs...-4745-p-21.html

 

Visual Novels fully revolve around the decision tree, so if they can do it, it should be possible here.

 

Another implementation of this is for the game to recognize previously triggered dialog and to allow you to skip to the next unseen dialog or rewind to the last choice. This also lets you explore to a greater degree.



#15 DiskJunky

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Posted 07 December 2015 - 18:47

Thanks for the info. I hadn't heard of Fate/Stay Night Réalta Nua though it's more than a little weird to come across a bit of Irish in an anime title :)


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#16 ct2651

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 00:58

We've actually already played around with the though of creating something similar to what you are proposing. What we've been thinking is that we (at some point) want to add some kind of tool to customize a StoryFlags file (where you're choices are stored). Most likely this will be in the form of a web-app on our website, or a downloadable tool that we'll release.

Through this tool/app you'd be able to choose from all choices across Books, to display the choice-tree and finally be able to download a customized file for you to import into the game.

 

Of course, this is not something we're currently working on. It's just something that we've thought of as something that would be really cool to do.

I can't give any guarantees on when/if this will be released, but surely it would be quite some time after we're already finished with the game itself. :)

 

Thanks for all your kind words and support. We highly appreciate it!

Well, if you really do this, then Bioware can go bankrupt because that idea was only half use for their last game... (Dragon age inquisition)

Even if they are doing these kinds of choice and consequences for a long time now...






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