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Why April can't shift?

Spoiler shift Dreamfall

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#61 Lee-m

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 11:02

Cortez doesn't seem like one to want the undreaming to unleash...So why would he send Brian across the divide?

From the information given, I don't understand how you can arrive that that conclusion. Cortez is just as likely to be in on it, as he isnt. Also you keep assuming the undreaming is all bad.

Why send him across the divide ?
a- he wants to go
b- this gives an opportunity for cortez and or the monks to use him.

#62 Crowboy

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 11:32

Sorry, the events at dreamfall and the Azadi are depicted as evil, even with reference to a ghetto initiated by the Azadi. I don't remember reading about good ghettos in my history lessons.

Even the Vagabond says to Brian "What have you done?" meaning he did something wrong when releasing the undreaming

We can assume they are evil.

And from TLJ we know that cortez is trying to perserve the balance, not to harm it or April.

 

So I think it's safe to assume that:

1. Undreaming = Evil

2. Cortez = Good

 

Maybe it's possible to assume that Cortez didn't know about the undreaming the same way the white didn't know anything about who's hunting them.

Also maybe the two monks are rouge and are somehow connected to Ms. Gilmore and the six.



#63 toremygg

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 11:39

It may even be that Cortez knows that the only way to bring about unification is to let the Undreaming have its way – for a while. Big risk, big payout?


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#64 Lee-m

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 12:15

Even the Vagabond says to Brian "What have you done?" meaning he did something wrong when releasing the undreaming

Wrong only from his perspective

TLJ doesnt really have totally good and totally evil, its all mostly a gray area and a matter of what angle you look at it from.
 

So I think it's safe to assume that:
1. Undreaming = Evil

My opinion is, that it is not good or evil. But opinions are all we have.
the undreaming never hurts anyone in dreamfall, as far as I can tell. Brian seems just fine.
 

2. Cortez = Good

From Aprils perspective maybe. Then again he uses her, keeps her from the truth, and uses a young person to cross the divide and get in all sorts of danger. It seems hes done the same with brian.
Even with McAllen, who is to say he was wrong and cortez was right? They are both kin.
 

Maybe it's possible to assume that Cortez didn't know about the undreaming the same way the white didn't know anything about who's hunting them.
Also maybe the two monks are rouge and are somehow connected to Ms. Gilmore and the six.

I would say its more unlikely cortez doesnt know what happens in the storytime. He knows about and understands the world of dreams. He *should* know, he helped create the divide after all.

I can see it from the other side too. I guess we will get answers to some of that stuff in TLJH.

#65 toremygg

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 12:23

the undreaming never hurts anyone in dreamfall, as far as I can tell.

If Brian is the Prophet, and the Undreaming controls Brian, then I have issues with that statement. :P



#66 Lee-m

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 12:36

If Brian is the Prophet, and the Undreaming controls Brian, then I have issues with that statement. :P

Even if it is true (would seem likely it is), hes not hurt ? maybe hes the only one who can be used this way. As he is open and perfect for the job. Maybe he will be just fine after. He wouldnt have been used anymore than April for being 'chosen'

#67 toremygg

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 12:39

Well, by extension the Undreaming has hurt a lot of people in Arcadia, though the Azadi. I believe we're pretty certain the Azadi invasion is caused by the Prophet's involvement, and behind him, the Undreaming.



#68 Lee-m

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 12:42

Well, by extension the Undreaming has hurt a lot of people in Arcadia, though the Azadi. I believe we're pretty certain the Azadi invasion is caused by the Prophet's involvement, and behind him, the Undreaming.

I would say its a safe bet too. But as it stands we know almost nothing about the undreaming. That still doesnt mean brian has been hurt in anyway, he seemed pretty happy getting drunk in TLJ to me, and now hes back on the road traveling again :)

#69 khh

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 13:58

Cortez could want the Undreaming released for unknown good or bad reasons. And I don't think Brian is a bad guy - seems like a red herring to me.

And wandrew FTL communications technology seems to be down too.
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April Ryan is my friend,
Every sorrow she can mend.
When I visit her dark realm,
Does it simply overwhelm.


#70 Crowboy

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 14:04

lol Lee-m you sound like a UN meeting.

 

Throughout TLJ Cortez is depicted as the one to save the worlds and McAllen to rule them.

Although it's debatable whether the divide is needed still, Cortez's only 'crime' is that he is unwilling to realize that the divide is no longer necessary. I doubt this scenario very much.

 

You can say McAllen is good sure, if you don't mind the way he abused gordon and Adrian, and the soldiers he built (who are able to shift). There are more examples obviously.

 

And as for the Vagabond, we don't know much about him, but the fact he lives in storytime, and seems scared when the undreaming arrives, it's safe to assume something bad happened. The game is also going in that direction, so assuming otherwise would be REALLY stretching it.

 

Who knows maybe we're all wrong and you're the only one right at the end, but I sure hope not, because you depict a very uninteresting story (at least in my opinion)



#71 Crowboy

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 14:04

And wandrew FTL communications technology seems to be down too.

How do you know that?



#72 Lee-m

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 14:52

lol Lee-m you sound like a UN meeting.

I'm much fairer than the UN :) But on a serious note, I do chair a lot of meetings in real life. Maybe i'll work my way up to that job at the UN.
 

Throughout TLJ Cortez is depicted as the one to save the worlds and McAllen to rule them.
Although it's debatable whether the divide is needed still, Cortez's only 'crime' is that he is unwilling to realize that the divide is no longer necessary. I doubt this scenario very much.

Sure a agree thats the way it looks. It will be interesting to see if April swaps sides when she brings down the balance :)
 

You can say McAllen is good sure, if you don't mind the way he abused gordon and Adrian, and the soldiers he built (who are able to shift). There are more examples obviously.

He's obviously gone down the wrong path, or just doesnt care much for human life. But we dont know what happened to split him and cortez up in the first place.

We have never been given the conditions that must be, for the time to be right for unification. So we don't know if Cortez or McAllen are correct.
 

And as for the Vagabond, we don't know much about him....

yeah, bit of a recurring theme not knowing lol
 

Who knows maybe we're all wrong and you're the only one right at the end, but I sure hope not, because you depict a very uninteresting story (at least in my opinion)

Well, I have never said things will be any different than you make out they will be. Im just saying there really isnt real evidence either way. For the most part I think cortez is good, because thats what we have seen so far.

Roll on November and a few answers.

#73 Crowboy

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 20:11

Lee-m, man you're mad. You'd fit right in at the UN  :D


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#74 Lee-m

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 20:49

Lee-m, man you're mad.

On this point, we are in full agreement :)

#75 toremygg

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 20:56

Finally... :crow: :sotb:


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#76 Crowboy

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 21:26

Jaal be damned back to the topic at hand.

 

Anyone can explain why they say FTL stopped working?



#77 Lee-m

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 22:08

Anyone can explain why they say FTL stopped working?I think it was one of the things that went with the collapse, which started around the time of TLJ.



#78 Crowboy

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 22:11

tsk tsk, I would expect more than that from you, Lee-m :o 

What part of the game gives this information?



#79 Lee-m

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 22:31

tsk tsk, I would expect more than that from you, Lee-m :o 
What part of the game gives this information?

The collapse isnt somthing I know that much about (I know I suck). If I remember rightly Charlie and Emma give you some info in the fridge cafe. The rest of the info is scattered about in news feeds. Anti grav issues started in TLJ. The crashed ship you get burns AG unit from for example.

Best source of info again, might be TLJ Wiki

#80 thelj

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 22:50

I,too,believe that the Undreaming might not be a totally bad thing or it's a bad thing that could be used/manipulated for a good cause.

 

As for the Vagabond's reaction,i think he's pretty much a neutral character.He lives isolated in his own little universe and has a specific job to do.Whatever (be it good or bad) might cause a disturbance in his world,he would naturally perceive it as a threat.

 

About Bryan.We see the Undreaming attacking him.Then what?We don't have any real evidence as to what happened next.We all just assume that it now controls him somehow.Of course the title "Tainted" implies that the whole ordeal had, in some way, a negative effect on him.

What if other people can get tainted too?Bryan left his diary at the monastery.What if someone found it and followed in his footsteps? (Prophet?)

 

Also,i really don't understand why the monks were so eager to help Bryan get to Arcadia.What could they possibly stand to gain from that?Where they cooperating with Cortez because they were part of the Sentinels or something?







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