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Why April can't shift?

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#41 Crowboy

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 05:46

To summarize what we know:

1. April shifted to the Guardian's realm with the help of the kin.

2. April can't shift anywhere on her own

3. Dreams flow to Arcadia

4. April doesn't believe in herself

5. The white kin seems to suggest April should be able to shift on her own, but can't for unknown reason. This is to say April CAN shift with help

 

This brings up a question, would she be able to shift to Stark with the help of the kin? What exactly did the kin do to help her shift?

April's ability to shift to the Guardian while it shouldn't be possible is another issue that is not directly connected to her ability to shift in general.

 

Ok, new theory:

The flow of dreams is like a current in a stream. You can't cross the stream with strong current without help, but with help you can do it.

So the flow of dreams is not blocking her ability to shift, just making it a lot harder than it is.

 

Makes sense?



#42 wandrew

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 05:48

Don't forget that the White tells April the Realm is different now that Gordon's on the throne.



#43 Crowboy

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 07:26

If memory serves right, it's just to prepare her that it will look different, as we clearly see when she passes through the portal.



#44 wandrew

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 08:50

It's not as explicit as I remembered, but I'm pretty sure it's not about the look: besides, April had seen it change as she left the Realm in TLJ.

 

April: I can't just open a Shift into the Guardian's Realm.
White of the Draich Kin: Really? Why's that?
April: Because that's not how it works. I can-- I could Shift between Stark and Arcadia, but it was a hell of a lot more difficult to go to that place.
White of the Draich Kin: Everything's changed, and everything's still changing.

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#45 Lee-m

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 10:01

It's not as explicit as I remembered, but I'm pretty sure it's not about the look: besides, April had seen it change as she left the Realm in TLJ.
 
April: I can't just open a Shift into the Guardian's Realm.
White of the Draich Kin: Really? Why's that?
April: Because that's not how it works. I can-- I could Shift between Stark and Arcadia, but it was a hell of a lot more difficult to go to that place.
White of the Draich Kin: Everything's changed, and everything's still changing.

I have always likened this part of the conversation with the knowledge Gordon is the 13th and last guardian. I have never taken it to be anything to do with the flow of dreams. But if Gordon is doing away with the balance anyway, and re integrating the guardians realm its reasonable to assume shifters wont be able to shift at some point.
 

This brings up a question, would she be able to shift to Stark with the help of the kin? What exactly did the kin do to help her shift?

The logical assumption would be yes. The white kin helped her focus, which she has lost along with her faith, so shes back to needing help like in TLJ before she had learnt to focus her power (so cortez helped). For me this is the exact same gameplay mechanic used in both games (to stop you being a teleporting badass).

#46 Crowboy

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 11:48

Thanks wandrew, I forgot about that part of the conversation.

So this makes the latest theory plausible.



#47 thelj

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 16:34

that is not whats happening is it ? Stark people are being robbed of their dreams via use of the dreamer, dreamcore and that swerly blue mess april finds in arcadia to store them. As I understand it, folks in arcadia are currently unaffected.

Well,i always assumed that ,since Gordon said that there's only a small trickle of dreams flowing from Arcadia to Stark,the arcadian's dreams are already stolen/trapped (in the swirly blue mess).Something to do with the Azadi or the Undreaming,i don't know...Maybe i assumed wrong.

And by the way,how the heck did Faith know about the Undreaming?

 

What i don't quite get is why do the dreams (the ones claimed by the Dreamer) have to be stored under the tower and not somewhere in Stark.Is the over excess of the dreams being stored altogether (starkian and arcadian) going to force them to start leaking into the world (similarly to what happened in TLJ) and thus causing the Balance to start falling apart?

The Dreamer plot+swirly blue thing imply that Gilmore and the Azadi (under the Prophet's commands) are somehow cooperating/communicating.How is that possible?Do they have a shifter/spy in their ranks?Do they have something to do with the Vanguard?

 

So many questions!!!! (is there a headache smiley? )



#48 Crowboy

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 18:36

Valid points thelj.

* The small trickle can be explained by the dreamer still not fully deployed as the dream machine hasn't been released yet

* About faith, if she can talk to the kin, maybe she can talk to others, but refresh my memory, what does she say about the undreaming?

* About communications, maybe they are communicating through dreams?

 

I remember Ragnar said once that the location of the Azadi tower is no chance. They didn't invade the northlands for nothing, the tower had to be where the old Sentinel temple once stood.



#49 RezaTemiz

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 20:09

April just doesn't give a shift anymore. :P


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#50 thelj

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 21:41

* The small trickle can be explained by the dreamer still not fully deployed as the dream machine hasn't been released yet

* About faith, if she can talk to the kin, maybe she can talk to others, but refresh my memory, what does she say about the undreaming?

*I don't understand what you mean.What do the Arcadian people have to do with the dream machines?

*She doesn't say anything but has drawn a picture of the Undreaming.It's in her room,at the russian factory.

 

 

April just doesn't give a shift anymore. :P

For real?Holy shift!  :P  :P


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#51 Crowboy

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 22:34

Sorry, I misread your post thought it was the other way around



#52 wandrew

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 02:24

I remember Ragnar said once that the location of the Azadi tower is no chance. They didn't invade the northlands for nothing, the tower had to be where the old Sentinel temple once stood.

 

And don't forget that there's basically a blueprint of the Azadi tower on the ancient dream chamber underneath.



#53 Ringtail

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 02:40

You know, I don't think I've ever heard a theory that April lost the ability to shift because of a disruption in the flow of dreams, and I kind of like it. If we paired it up with the "Brian Westhouse is a pawn of the Undreaming" theory, which holds that the Undreaming inside Brian got triggered upon his meeting with April in TLJ...then maybe Brian/The Prophet/The Undreaming started collecting dreams via the secret underground city shortly after the events of TLJ, thus impairing April's ability to Shift (and this impairment was compounded by her worsened psychological state).

 

I like it! 


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#54 wandrew

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 03:09

I made a list, years back, of all the things that don't work anymore in DF. Might be worth putting together again:

 

* FTL travel (we think)

* the Wire

* Shifting?

* the Dark People's hive mind

 

I'm sure there was more. Anyone?



#55 toremygg

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 05:30

I'm sure there was more. Anyone?

Well, there was more high-tech transport that failed, I think, but I'm not sure if that was because of the Wire failure. But no Anti-Grav technology in Dreamfall, AFAICR, but more mundane stuff like mag-lev and wing-in-ground craft (the "hovercraft").



#56 Crowboy

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 07:18

I made a list, years back, of all the things that don't work anymore in DF. Might be worth putting together again:

 

* FTL travel (we think)

* the Wire

* Shifting?

* the Dark People's hive mind

 

I'm sure there was more. Anyone?

The wire works fine in fact Faith is affecting it with static. You meant the Neural Interface instead I think

And no AG is correct Ragnar confirmed that as well on the playthrough IIRC.

 

And don't forget that there's basically a blueprint of the Azadi tower on the ancient dream chamber underneath.

Now this is something I don't remember, can you refresh my memory?

 

 

You know, I don't think I've ever heard a theory that April lost the ability to shift because of a disruption in the flow of dreams, and I kind of like it. If we paired it up with the "Brian Westhouse is a pawn of the Undreaming" theory, which holds that the Undreaming inside Brian got triggered upon his meeting with April in TLJ...then maybe Brian/The Prophet/The Undreaming started collecting dreams via the secret underground city shortly after the events of TLJ, thus impairing April's ability to Shift (and this impairment was compounded by her worsened psychological state).

 

I like it! 

One thing though, why do the monks and cortez behave as though Brian is critical and important? "our last hope" or something like that. They send him across the divide even though they know it would unleash the undreaming.

I don't think Brian is who's hunting the kin, it was hinted when the white met him and was later attacked, but I think it's more logical to assume that the dark person who didn't recognize April was actually the one who attacked the kin.


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#57 Lee-m

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 08:46

One thing though, why do the monks and cortez behave as though Brian is critical and important? "our last hope" or something like that. They send him across the divide even though they know it would unleash the undreaming.

That would seem to be the job for him they had in mind.
 

I don't think Brian is who's hunting the kin, it was hinted when the white met him and was later attacked, but I think it's more logical to assume that the dark person who didn't recognize April was actually the one who attacked the kin.

Its unknown, but the list of candidates is pretty small, brian being the main one, after all he is 'tainted', given what we know it seems like the best fit. But for all we know it was crow. Again we don't have enough information to figure it out.

#58 Crowboy

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 09:03

That would seem to be the job for him they had in mind.

Sorry, what?

 

 

Again we don't have enough information to figure it out.

 

Yes yes we know, you don't have to repeat yourself. You should already know that we don't care :P



#59 Lee-m

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 09:48

Sorry, what?

 
ok i'll rephrase that.
You asked why did they send him knowing the undreaming would be unleashed? It would seem that is what they want. Seems brian has been given a job to do by cortez and the monks even if hes not a willing participant.

Every one is asuming the kin are in danger just because the white cant sense them anymore. Maybe the undreaming taints 'people' in such a way, as they are off the dream grid so to speak, and would in reality help the kin avoid whatever is going on. We wont know until the end of this year ;)

Yes yes we know, you don't have to repeat yourself. You should already know that we don't care :P

I'll most likely keep pointing that out ;)

#60 Crowboy

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 10:50

ok i'll rephrase that.
You asked why did they send him knowing the undreaming would be unleashed? It would seem that is what they want. Seems brian has been given a job to do by cortez and the monks even if hes not a willing participant.

Every one is asuming the kin are in danger just because the white cant sense them anymore. Maybe the undreaming taints 'people' in such a way, as they are off the dream grid so to speak, and would in reality help the kin avoid whatever is going on. We wont know until the end of this year ;)

 

From the DF epilogue:

Manny Chavez: Hello, old friend.

Brian Westhouse: Cha...Chavez...

...what are you...doing here?

Manny Chavez: Time is a circle. It will not end here. You are needed.

(offers a hand) Take my hand, Brian. The future awaits us.

 

Cortez doesn't seem like one to want the undreaming to unleash...So why would he send Brian across the divide?







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