Jump to content


Photo

Zoe's Body Disappears

zoe body dream disappears vanishes

  • Please log in to reply
119 replies to this topic

#101 Dagget

Dagget

    Arcadia Native

  • Dreamer
  • PipPipPip
  • 368 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 30 June 2015 - 03:28

Crow was with Zoe in Marcuria in Dreamfall and she still *poofed* out of there, much like in Book 3 in Propast, so I don't think Crow's presence in any way correlates to her being 'real' in one world or another.

 

For now I'll stick with "She's in Casa Blanca in a coma or similar and lucid dreams herself to one world or another.  2nd theory on my list is she is Lux, who is dreaming in several places as needed.



#102 Ablaze

Ablaze

    Rubber Ducky

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 4 posts

Posted 30 June 2015 - 04:18

What happens if you DON'T chose to remember? 

Nothing substantive. A few dialogs change slightly. You still remember just as much.



#103 Clairobscur

Clairobscur

    Arcadia Native

  • Minstrum
  • PipPipPip
  • 298 posts
  • LocationKyrandia

Posted 30 June 2015 - 08:25

I forgot about the weird DF ending in Zoë's hospital room. She says "I'm leaving soon, but I'm not afraid. If death is the end, I know that our dreams remain behind." Then Reza enters the room and Gabriel says: "She's fading away" (same word as in Book Three). And then a second Zoë in underwear pops up (looks like Wintertime Zoë), looks at herself in the bed and says "Goodbye."

 

https://youtu.be/RUCrqfktbts?t=35m15s

 

So Zoë could well have died at the end of DF, gone to Storytime and dreamt herself up again to continue her story.


  • Riaise, aeonfluxx75, Pawlo_86 and 3 others like this

#104 aeonfluxx75

aeonfluxx75

    Fringe Café Regular

  • Vestrum
  • PipPip
  • 51 posts
  • LocationMaryland

Posted 02 July 2015 - 16:46

... so THAT was the missing piece. 

 

I really would play Dreamfall again to finish it all the way through.. . but I was frustrated beyond measure by the troll hiding sequence. I don't think I'd have the patience to bear with it now, even.

^ was the reason I quit playing DF for almost a year after I started. Eventually I mustered up the patience and with walkthrough in tow as a guide through that aggrevating point I made short matter of the whole ordeal.  I ONLY finished the game because of that walkthrough of the catacomb hiding and statue bit. 


I found it I did, a way through the marshes....Orcs don't use it. Orcs don't know it. They go 'round for miles and miles.


#105 aeonfluxx75

aeonfluxx75

    Fringe Café Regular

  • Vestrum
  • PipPip
  • 51 posts
  • LocationMaryland

Posted 02 July 2015 - 17:37

...

 

I'm curious if it's a glitch or not. That would be interesting if you chose to, say, not remember, that you didn't get that scene or something. I can't say for sure.

I chose to remember and didn't get that scene.  Not even when I replayed the ending of Book 2 to have my choices properly carry to Book 3. Although I wonder if the questioning line in Zelenka's office could have something to do with kicking that scene off.  Despite being exhaustive with all dialog options I do remember being a bit deceptive with him due to being suspicious of his intentions.  That didn't stop me from heavily flirting with him though. lol -anything to get rid of that pesky questionable Reza ...that didn't work either though


I found it I did, a way through the marshes....Orcs don't use it. Orcs don't know it. They go 'round for miles and miles.


#106 Roseweave

Roseweave

    Arcadia Native

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 237 posts

Posted 02 July 2015 - 17:49

maybe if you choose not to remember at some point? idk. i'd like one of the devs to address this.



#107 pazzer

pazzer

    Fringe Café Regular

  • Dreamer
  • PipPip
  • 115 posts

Posted 02 July 2015 - 20:17

Zoe died and is now like Faith. Assume she ended up in storytime as was hooked up to dreamer at time.Somehow her body eventually ends up in hospital. Doubt Wonkers would have raised the alarm. Which leaves mother and father as most likely. Also who unhooked dreamer as isn't that risky. At start of chapters Zoe hops back into body. Reason body disapers is she's fully unlocked dreamer power and can cross divide similar to how shifters do.
 



#108 Roseweave

Roseweave

    Arcadia Native

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 237 posts

Posted 02 July 2015 - 20:35

 I don't think Zoë's dead. It seems pointless to show her twitching in the hospital bed if she is.



#109 TheBigBad1013

TheBigBad1013

    Rubber Ducky

  • Vestrum
  • Pip
  • 49 posts
  • LocationDenmark

Posted 02 July 2015 - 20:39

 I refuse to entertain any theory in which Zoë is either dead or dying.

 

Too painful. :(



#110 Roseweave

Roseweave

    Arcadia Native

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 237 posts

Posted 02 July 2015 - 20:41

Yeah, they already pulled that on Ashes to Ashes :P



#111 Evi

Evi

    Rubber Ducky

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 17 posts
  • LocationPoland

Posted 03 July 2015 - 00:28

 

I don't think she is dead. She could be still in a coma and dream herself in Propast. She vanished from Propast and materialized in Arcadia like it was in DF (from library to Swamp City). But why with the "old" hairdo? Does it even matter?



#112 Sarah_Stark

Sarah_Stark

    Arcadia Native

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 184 posts
  • LocationEngland

Posted 04 July 2015 - 00:20

I was actually thinking something along the lines of Possibility number two:

Partly because when she was put into a coma, Helena - a woman with power, and the potential money/resources could move Zoe to a secure location, and perhaps hook her up to a machine in a similar way to Peats. We still don't know the true reason she wanted to kill Faith, and it's not impossible that everything happening within WATICorp is part of her plans (what people say in TLJ and that they do don't often work out as the same thing). It's therefore possible that Zoe has projected herself in a similar way that Faith managed in the Wire.

 

When she disappeared in Stark, it was closer to her teleporting to other locations outside of her body, as when she actually left Arcadia, the clothing remained. Every other teleport in the last game, her clothing travelled with her.

 

I wonder too if she appeared in Propast because that's where she's needed most. It's a key location that shows how truly dire the situation is in Stark, which in turn motivates Zoe into taking action (repeatedly, in fact), mirroring her being sent to witness April's ''Death'' (in quotation marks simply because I don't think we've seen the last of her).

 

Partly related, but given how long it'd been since I last played Dreamfall: TLJ, I'd forgotten about Reza at the end of the game, as well as a few other bits here and there. I completed the game earlier, and a few things stand out:

Damien and Olivia being killed off, as well as Reza being alive. Two characters that were assumed to be alive but in hiding, and another we'd been told twice in Dreamfall was dead's alive and well, and living in Par-Propast. It feels to me that there's something very off about Stark.

It's possible that they decided to tidy up the cast of characters to make it more accessible to those coming into the story with Chapters. However, they could have set up Damien as her boyfriend, or even simply had Olivia in the role filled by Mira. The fact she knows about their passing feels like it's a deliberate nod to us. For newcomers, the names mean nothing, and to veterans, we already have reasons to accept they'd simply not be in Propast with Zoe.

 

One last thing, though related to the first paragraph: We know from what Damien said that when connected to a Dream machine, subliminal messages - even brainwashing - was possible. We know Zoe's unique when she dreams because of what Peats tells her. So perhaps they've found a way to keep her in Dreamtime, believing she's not in a lucid dream and thus worm their way into her dreams. I say this, because it's possible she's being used as either a conduit, or something else, to aid in the bridging of Stark and Arcadia. Her being connected to a Dreammachine, and actually ''being'' in both worlds (through projection, maybe) could be the key to their plans. If dreams shape reality, her ''dreaming'' the events of both worlds could be essentially writing a truth they need for their plans to come to fruition.

 

I think Queenie and other allies of hers are either mental safeguards that have detected there's something ''off'' or else other powers that exist within dreams that sense she could be the only one to stop what's happening, if only she could ''wake up''.

 

Of course I could be completely wrong, but it's at least a theory. And we all love them, right? :)


I could of course be very wrong.


#113 AprilsNotDead92

AprilsNotDead92

    Rubber Ducky

  • Vestrum
  • Pip
  • 19 posts

Posted 04 July 2015 - 06:54

In the last game Dreamfall Longest Journey, Zoe did the same thing except she was in Arcadia so I don't know whether to believe that her body disappearing is just something that dreamers do (which would make her similar to a shifter but a little different because April herself said that what happened with Zoe was not like a shift but something different) or like CPAwesome said whether it has something to do with her physical body being in a different place or world and she is still dreaming. Let's say that it is the first option and it is a part of her being a dreamer. That would mean that Zoe could dream her body anywhere which would be weird because that would make her like ghost. If the second option and her body is truly stashed away somewhere, it makes me question where it is and who has it. I guess I don't really know what it means for Zoe to be a dreamer because in the first game LJ it was fairly clear what April was and how she was able to shift herself between worlds. With Zoe it really is not so clear because she has switched so much between the two different worlds and realities and it is hard to tell now whether she is still dreaming or not. It would be interesting if the life Zoe had in Stark was really all a dream and she was really the whole time in Arcadia. It would almost be like a dream within a dream.



#114 CmputrBlu

CmputrBlu

    Rubber Ducky

  • Vestrum
  • Pip
  • 25 posts

Posted 04 July 2015 - 07:17

 I refuse to entertain any theory in which Zoë is either dead or dying.

 

Too painful. :(

 

Seems likely she's still in her coma back in Casablanca; but I fear we'll get another Faith moment in the end though for her story to be complete. Talk bout painful!

 

Having said that I don't think she'll disappear never to be seen again like Faith. :)


"A dream within a dream - I'm impressed."


#115 Alcarmo

Alcarmo

    Arcadia Native

  • Shifter
  • PipPipPip
  • 223 posts
  • LocationCzech Republic

Posted 04 July 2015 - 08:13

Well, I didn´t expect so many theories and I couldn´t read all of them because my head is already damaged by many other DC mysteries  :D

anyway...

 

why couldn´t be Zoë´s disappearing from Stark as simple as she just finally amplified her abilities to dream herself anywhere she wants?

That worked for April´s shifting powers as well...in the beginning she was not able to shift just by herself....but in the end...  :rolleyes:

 

I believe that Zoë is stronger than ever now and she is about to start kicking some asses at last  :lol:  :sotb:

Go girl, you´re the best!  :wub:


"The Balance provides. The Balance protects. Trust the Balance, and trust yourself." - Vestrum Tobias

 


#116 Sarah_Stark

Sarah_Stark

    Arcadia Native

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 184 posts
  • LocationEngland

Posted 04 July 2015 - 09:56

Something else that occurred to me: We've been told Dreams are how the world was built, and that they can alter reality. One thing crossing my mind is if the ultimate goal of the villains is rebuilding the world as they see fit, that they need Zoe to think she's awake (as mentioned in my above post), but at the same time, if she does finally ''wake up'' could she not only shape the world as she sees fit, but also could that include bringing April back from the dead? I can't imagine it's coincidence she happened to be taken to witness April's death in such a way she could do nothing about it at that moment unless she later on rebuilds and undoes so much of it.

 

Right now, I think she's being manipulated into helping shape the world the enemy wants, or at least restricting her manipulation to more trivial things, such as who runs Europolis. It doesn't matter who anyone votes for, and nor does it matter what she does: The end result is someone WATICorp have power over will be in charge. Of course, they can only keep her caged for so long before her mind starts rebelling, which could be why she is able to move over to Arcadia, or perhaps even why events happen the way they do - to shock her out of her stupor.

 

Much like in a dream (and yes, a computer game), all actions that cause ripples centre on the dreamer. If she didn't know ''Reza'', she'd not have been able to use the Hand that Feeds to pass out information. Had she not been friends with Nela, she'd not have been handed the package, and nor would she have witnessed her suicide bombing. Had she not worked part-time at the campaign, most of those events would have taken a massively different course to the point of being uneventful. Very little within Zoe's story is seen in any way that wouldn't suggest she witnessed it (even camera footage of her is still only of things she has already seen, and could simply be a nod to the fact she's being observed - wherever she is). Periphery events are sketchy, such as the deaths of Damien and Liv. When a character leaves her immediate vicinity, they may as well cease to exist, such as with her father and Reza now being conveniently out-of-reach. 

 

In fairness, it could be argued this is also true in Dreamfall, a lot of that was her being directed to do something, with perhaps the delusion she was choosing her own path, whereas in Chapters, she - illusory or otherwise - takes the initiative. compare Reza in Dreamfall involving her, to that of Chapters where he adamantly insists she doesn't get involved in anything that could rattle cages.

 

Of course, I could be way off the mark. Theorising however, has a way of worming into your brain, not unlike a little something we used on an organic computer sometime back.


I could of course be very wrong.


#117 Pawlo_86

Pawlo_86

    Harbinger of the Balance

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2735 posts
  • LocationPoland

Posted 04 July 2015 - 10:01

In very first Europolis teaser Propast was a wasteland. RTG mentioned some dream stuff in Propast. Maybe Propast changes because of Dreamer? Reshape the city.

Also EYE knows that Zoe lives in Propast. EYE belongs to WATI. So why they let Zoe and Reza to live there while they killed Olivia and Damien?

#118 Sarah_Stark

Sarah_Stark

    Arcadia Native

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 184 posts
  • LocationEngland

Posted 04 July 2015 - 10:19

Another possibility with Liv and Damien is that they would likely be too smart to ever connect to a Dreammachine, and so aren't alive in the sense they're not connected to the mass lucid dream the worlds population could be sharing. Far-fetched, but given how something like that just happened in Under The Dome, it's not an improbable story leap. As for Reza, every piece of evidence suggests he's not the same as he was - possibly even not Reza at all, so it could be that he was inserted as a way to ''ground'' Zoe into believing this is her reality.

Of course this is, as always, hypothetical and very likely way off the mark, but as mentioned above: Theorising is one of those things you can't shake once ''Theory Fever'' takes hold.


I could of course be very wrong.


#119 Crowboy

Crowboy

    Vestrum Herald

  • Dreamer
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1194 posts

Posted 08 July 2015 - 16:07

First thing is: If Zoe is still dreaming herself, why did she lose her memory?

 

Another option I didn't see anyone mention: It could be that everyone is already connected to the dreamer, a sort of matrix world, and Zoe simply woke up to that global lucid dream where everyone forgot they're dreaming.

In that case, Queenie is similar to Morpheus trying to wake Zoe up.

 

I believe that one way or another Hanna and Mira are real and they both observed Zoe disappear.

If it's in the real world or not, I don't know. I believe that Zoe's physical body is not walking around in Propast.



#120 Pawlo_86

Pawlo_86

    Harbinger of the Balance

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2735 posts
  • LocationPoland

Posted 09 July 2015 - 09:14

 It could be that everyone is already connected to the dreamer, a sort of matrix world, and Zoe simply woke up to that global lucid dream where everyone forgot they're dreaming.

 

There is a conversation between two Propast citizens where one of them mentions a possiblity that this all the dream and they're all connected to Dreamer. This could mean that Propast is a "dream world" created by WATIcorp for something.


  • Crowboy likes this





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: zoe, body, dream, disappears, vanishes

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users