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Zoe's Body Disappears

zoe body dream disappears vanishes

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#41 Sebsghost

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 18:45

I don't know, I'm really torn about where Zoe is, exactly. After the events of Book Three, I've looked closer at the ending of Book Two and something weird occurred to me.

 

Take a look at these two screenshots, one immediately after the blast and one in the scene afterwards, of Zoe in the hospital bed:

Spoiler

 

Notice how, in the first picture, Zoe is wounded badly. She's bruised and bloody, and from Book Three, we know she had burns severe enough to require skin grafts.

 

But in the second picture, she isn't wounded at all. Presumably the dirt and blood would be cleaned up so she wouldn't look as bad as the first screenshot, but wouldn't you expect there to be some wounds? She doesn't look burned at all, and her hairstyle is the exact same as the way it was in her comatose Storytime state.

 

I'm not sure I have a perfect answer, but it really feels like, at the very least, Zoe's body is not in the Stark we've explored. At the beginning of the game, Zoe said she couldn't manipulate real world objects so how did she manipulate that machine and her physical body to wake herself up? Not to mention people telling her to wake up: Zelenka, and twice now Queenie... It just makes me wonder, is this Stark or is this a dream version of Stark? I don't know, it's all quite mysterious.


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#42 Pawlo_86

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 18:54

It just makes me wonder, is this Stark or is this a dream version of Stark? I don't know, it's all quite mysterious.

 

I believe that Propast is real but Zoe dreamed herself there.


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#43 Luelle

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 19:07

I'm pretty sure that Zoe's body is still in Casablanca. She's still in the same bed, look at that pillow and her hair:

Spoiler

 

She dreamt herself in Propast and now in Marcuria (and that's why she disappeared - she can't have two 'dream bodies').


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#44 Pawlo_86

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 19:10

Maybe Zoe dreamed herself in Propast because of that story which she told Vagabond at the end of Dreamfall? Maybe she changed some shapes of her life?



#45 Clairobscur

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 19:16

After Book Three, it is clear that Zoë from Propast is a dream. But I also think Propast is real. The mystery is: where is her body?

Sebsghost made an excellent observation! It would point indeed that Zoë is still in Casablanca. She might be elsewhere and I am thinking Mumbai since this place is mentioned a lot by people close to her.


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#46 Luelle

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 19:17

And maybe she's supposed to die in the end. After saving the world once again, she'll meet the Vagabond for the last time, just like he said in Book 1, and then she'll stay in the Storytime because apparently 'she belongs there' (and her body will die).

 

OR she'll replace Lux.



#47 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 19:18

Yeah. 

 

At the end of Book Two, I was fairly convinced she was still in a coma. I was leaning towards the idea that the Propast we were seeing may have been all or partly a dream construct. 

 

However, after Book Three, I'm thinking that second part was wrong. I don't know how...I don't know where her body is or why no one has noticed her being in two places at once. But she has been Dreaming herself into Propast. I don't know why else she would have disappeared the same way she did when she left Arcadia in Dreamfall. And the "You're not all here, you're fading, you are part Dream" thing was really hammered on. 

 

And frankly, if this Propast wasn't real, I don't know why they would have bothered showing us Mira and Hanna's reactions to her disappearance. That feels important. They could have had her disappear alone in her room with no one there to see it when she put on the Dreamer the first time if the whole thing was some sort of construct. 

 

I'm almost wondering if somehow the Zoe that was in a coma the whole time was some sort of construct and the "real" Zoe was taken somewhere else. ...But I don't know. 


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#48 Pawlo_86

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 19:24

I found it! It was pretty hard...

 

https://vine.co/v/hiZMtqd9jrA

 

Zoe in Casablanca (alpha DFC)


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#49 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 19:27

I remembered that Vine as well, though we don't know how much has changed since then. That was really early in development. Some of the footage they showed us that was more complete ended up being changed drastically. 

 

So...I mean. I'm leaning that way, but I don't know if we can call it confirmed or anything. 


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#50 Abnoxious

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 19:32

My thoughts exactly on comatose Zoe being a projection or some kind of psychological manifestation.
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#51 Dagget

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 19:42

Which all still means, we hope, that she can't *really* be killed in Arcadia.



#52 Dreamcatcher

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 20:04

just a few thoughts I had on this:
 
queenie told zoe in book three time is running out.
And it was mentioned, I think several times, that zoes was fading.
I think she would have gone *poff* in propast anyway, sooner or later.
The Dreamer acted as catalysation, but I believe Zoe did it all by herself.
She was ready to go.

For me it felt like she could only be in acardia because she remembers it.
And vice versa. She can only be in propast as long as she is not remembering acardia
the more she remembers the more she fades away in propast.
These things seemed to be connected.

And something else... did anyone notice her world in propast is getting smaller and smaller?
Her friends dissapear. First wonkers,barutti, rezza, nela.
More and more areas were closed down until she could only move between very few areas and places
and finally she could not go anywhere anymore, not even back home. That was when she dissapeared.
If she created propast in her dream and is fading away, it would make a lot of sense
that everything around her starts to fade (getting smaller) with her.

(just saying...I´m not completely convinced "zoe created propast in her dream" is what really happend.
we see her dissapear in propast, not propast dissapear.)

I´m dying now to find out where the real dreaming zoe is and what happend to her,
but I have a strong feeling this is going to be book five material.


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#53 Bruno

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 20:50

And something else... did anyone notice her world in propast is getting smaller and smaller?


I like this, very interesting point.
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#54 Shift

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 20:52

I'm in the 'Zoë never came out of her coma' camp. I think that the character we've been playing was a, I'll call it  'dream projection' for lack of a better phrase. A physical manifestation of Zoë's consciousness like the one that allowed her to interact with Arcadia.


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#55 CPAwesome

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 21:24

Holy crap!  I just posted this yesterday and there are already 3 pages with 51 responses!  I was definitely not expecting that big a reaction.

 

All of these are really awesome conjectures and have given me a lot to think about.  One thing, however, stands out quite a bit.

 

Several people are talking about the scene at the end of Book 2 where we see Zoe asleep, or still in a coma, with her old hairdo and shirt.  But...I never saw that scene.  Maybe it was just a glitch.  Or maybe the scene is dependent on in-game choices.  But for me, the final scene of Book 2 was an unconscious Zoe getting pulled away from the explosion site by someone who I remember thinking was probably the German guy (apparently his name is Falk?).  That's the last thing I saw before moving on to Book 3.  And I only just got the game a couple of days ago, so I played all of this very recently.

 

So...what exactly did other people see in this scene that I missed?  The image someone posted looks like a shot of Zoe in the Casablanca hospital.  Was there any more to the scene?

 

Now that I know about that scene, the most likely possibility seems to be Possibility Two--Zoe's body never left Stark, but she never woke up, either.  She Dreamed herself back to Stark, instead.  Some people have pointed out that Helena Chang or Wati may be holding on to Zoe's body to smooth things over, and that does seem like the most likely solution to the problems presented by Possibility Two.



#56 Ringtail

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 21:57

Gabriel could also be stashing Zoe somewhere.  That could explain why he and she haven't spoken in the time since Zoe went to Propast -- he's either (1) trying to figure out why he has two versions of his daughter, or (2) he knows why, and is trying to prevent Zoe from having an existential freak-out from encountering her own comatose body.


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#57 Quatipu

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 22:29

A fair warning: This post/theory might get a little long.

 

I thought a little about the theory about dreamers for each world. But first: What is the purpose of a Dreamer? It seems that Dreamers are important in either creating the worlds or at least sustaining them. There are a lot hints towards this: When the dream ends, the universe is going to collapse. The undreaming causing destruction, etc.

That brought me back to the theory that there might be different Dreamers for each of the worlds. I guess Lux as first Dreamer might be the most important one, the one that dreams the universe and the worlds contained within (Stark, Arcadia, the Realm of the Guardian, HoaW, Storytime...).

But there are two other Dreamers we know of: Zoe and Hanna. Let's assign every Dreamer the world they are responsible for. The first thought of course is that Hanna is the Dreamer for Stark and Zoe the Dreamer for Arcadia. But on second thought I believe there is a more plausible assignment:

  • Hanna is the Dreamer of Arcadia

Hanna did always dream of Arcadia (see the pictures in her hideout). At first, I thought that perhaps Hanna took over the job from Zoe as Zoe was lost in storytime. That everything behind the "Wake up Zoe" is that Zoe returns doing her duty as Dreamer. But then I remembered that Zoe belongs to Storytime. So let's just assume:

  • Zoe is the Dreamer of Storytime.

The beginning of DFC is actually a big clue for this, I mean, what does she do? She manipulates Dreams while being in Storytime. Of course this leads to the question: Who is the Dreamer of Stark? And I guess I have also an answer for this:

  • The prophet in Arcadia is the Dreamer of Stark.

If this is true, there would be a nice symmetry between Hanna being in Stark and the prophet being in Arcadia. Hanna is a typical person of Propast (Stark) dreaming of the magical Arcadia. The prophet on the other hand is a prominent figure in Azadir (Arcadia) dreaming of... technology. At least that is strongly hinted by different characters in book 3 when talking about the machinery in Mercuria. What if this dream of technology is nothing but the dream of Stark and the attempt to copy it?

 

 

Bonus: If Zoe really belongs to Storytime, then perhaps the Possibility Three: Zoe's body is in the Storytime is even more true than we imagined. Perhaps Zoe never ever left Storytime. Even the adventure in Dreamfall was just a projection of her into Stark and Arcadia...

 

 

So... that's enough crazy theory for the moment ;-)


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#58 Sebsghost

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 09:25

Holy crap!  I just posted this yesterday and there are already 3 pages with 51 responses!  I was definitely not expecting that big a reaction.

 

All of these are really awesome conjectures and have given me a lot to think about.  One thing, however, stands out quite a bit.

 

Several people are talking about the scene at the end of Book 2 where we see Zoe asleep, or still in a coma, with her old hairdo and shirt.  But...I never saw that scene.  Maybe it was just a glitch.  Or maybe the scene is dependent on in-game choices.  But for me, the final scene of Book 2 was an unconscious Zoe getting pulled away from the explosion site by someone who I remember thinking was probably the German guy (apparently his name is Falk?).  That's the last thing I saw before moving on to Book 3.  And I only just got the game a couple of days ago, so I played all of this very recently.

 

So...what exactly did other people see in this scene that I missed?  The image someone posted looks like a shot of Zoe in the Casablanca hospital.  Was there any more to the scene?

 

Now that I know about that scene, the most likely possibility seems to be Possibility Two--Zoe's body never left Stark, but she never woke up, either.  She Dreamed herself back to Stark, instead.  Some people have pointed out that Helena Chang or Wati may be holding on to Zoe's body to smooth things over, and that does seem like the most likely solution to the problems presented by Possibility Two.

 

You didn't miss too much. The general synopsis: German guy pulls Zoe away.The scene switches to Zoe in (presumably) a hospital bed (as seen in my previous post). Zoe looks exactly like she did in her comatose state in the very beginning of DFC. In the background, you can hear the beeping of hospital equipment. The camera pans out to show more of Zoe, and you can see an IV on her arm. Zoe's body twitches slightly and her head moves to the left. The scene ends and the consequences scene pops up.

 

I'm curious if it's a glitch or not. That would be interesting if you chose to, say, not remember, that you didn't get that scene or something. I can't say for sure.



#59 Olstyle

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 10:26

A
Bonus: If Zoe really belongs to Storytime, then perhaps the Possibility Three: Zoe's body is in the Storytime is even more true than we imagined. Perhaps Zoe never ever left Storytime. Even the adventure in Dreamfall was just a projection of her into Stark and Arcadia...

I like this one.
But if we assume that there is only ever one body and one projection, dreaming in Dreamfall wouldn't work since she always left a body(second projection?) behind.
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#60 Clairobscur

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 10:41

Bonus: If Zoe really belongs to Storytime, then perhaps the Possibility Three: Zoe's body is in the Storytime is even more true than we imagined. Perhaps Zoe never ever left Storytime. Even the adventure in Dreamfall was just a projection of her into Stark and Arcadia...

 

It would make sense with the ending of Dreamfall, when Zoë tells her story to the Vagabond. It's like she starts at the beginning of her own life:

 

Zoë: Where do I begin?

Vagabond: At the beginning.

Zoë: At the beginning? It's going to be a long story.

(...)

Zoë: My name is Zoë Castillo, and I think I might be dead, but I'm not sure. My father's name is Gabriel...


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