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Zoe's Body Disappears

zoe body dream disappears vanishes

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#1 CPAwesome

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 07:59

Warning: This is a really long post.

 

One specific detail jumped out at me from the recently released Book 3.  If you haven't finished it yet, don't read this, obviously.  Also, my apologies if the theories and thoughts here have already been pointed out.  I didn't find them in a brief search, and I'm very curious to hear others' responses to this, so I'm posting this thread.

 

The detail that jumped out to me was the fact that when Zoe uses the Dreamachine, her body disappears.  Red Thread has gone to the trouble of pointing this out to us by having Zoe specifically say that it will appear as if she is still there and asleep--and then, instead, she vanishes.

 

As Dreamfall players will remember, this is not how Dreaming normally works.  Before, every time Zoe Dreamed herself into Arcadia, her physical body remained in Stark, appearing comatose.  This is confirmed by Charlie in DF.  Instead of travelling physically to Arcadia, like April does, it would appear that Zoe creates a kind of "dream projection" of herself in Arcadia--albeit a very material projection, which can interact with the world, feel pain and other sensations, etc.  But as Charlie points out to us, the physical body that she normally inhabits remains in Stark.  In fact, there's only one time we see Zoe actually disappear--when she leaves Arcadia, to wake back up in the real world.  Na'ane postulates that Zoe's vanishing is a sign that she was never completely in Arcadia in the first place.

 

But this time, when Zoe travels to Arcadia, she disappears from Stark.  The most obvious conclusion here would seem to be that her actual physical body is not in Stark at all--and hasn't been, for the entirety of Dreamfall Chapters.  This probably isn't the only explanation for the disappearance, but it is strengthened by other things: Zoe has been told more than once that she needs to "wake up", Queenie claims that Zoe is not completely here and is starting to fade, and most recently, Zoe herself thought she was starting to disappear when in the warehouse in Book 3.  It seems likely, then, that although Zoe believes she is physically in Stark, she is in reality Dream-projecting herself into Stark in much the same way that she Dream-projected herself into Arcadia during Dreamfall.

 

And that leads to a very obvious question: If Zoe's body is not in Stark...where is it?  I've been wracking my brain today examining various possibilities, all of which have some merits and some serious flaws.  I'm going to post a few of the ideas here and see what others think.

 

Possibility One: Zoe's body is in Arcadia: This was the first possibility that occurred to me.  It would make a great plot twist: Zoe thinks, when she puts on the Dreamachine, that she is Dreaming herself into Arcadia, as she did during Dreamfall.  But in reality, she's been in Arcadia the whole time, Dreaming herself into Stark, and now she's waking up.  It has the appeal of the "Bruce Willis has been dead for the whole movie" realization at the end of the film Sixth Sense (oh...uh...spoiler alert...).  I really like this idea a lot, but it has some serious (and obvious) problems.  The first one is this: if Zoe's body is in Arcadia, how did it get there?  She's not a Shifter.  Travelling between worlds, as Brian Westhouse taught us, is extremely difficult without the ability to Shift.  And she never physically leaves Stark during Dreamfall--so was her body moved there while she was in a coma?  If so, why?  And how did no one notice she was missing?  Was she Dream-projecting a coma version of herself into Stark?  And then there's a second major problem: why has no one in Arcadia noticed her body?  It would presumably have been lying in the Journeyman Inn this whole time, since that's where she "wakes up"...but Crow has been there for a little while and hasn't seen her.  And even though the Journeyman's been closed for a while, it seems odd that no one would ever know there was a woman sleeping in there.  Awesome as this plot twist would be, I'm having a hard time seeing how it would work.

 

Possibility Two: Zoe's body IS in Stark, but Zoe's not in it: Ok, bear with me a moment.  Maybe Zoe didn't really "wake up" from the coma like she thinks she did.  Maybe she tried to, but what really happened is that she Dream-projected herself back to Stark without actually waking up.  So her body is still in the hospital, while the projection of her mind is running around Stark, just as material as when she was running around Arcadia in DF.  It's a little convoluted, I know, but if you think about it, it makes just as much sense as her actually waking up from the coma like she believes she did.  The major problem here is the same as the second problem I mentioned in the last one, though: why has no one noticed her body still sitting in the hospital?  Why wasn't there ever a point where Gabriel said, "Hey, uh, Zoe...there appear to be TWO of you now?"  It seems unfeasible.  Still, it's less problematic (albeit more complicated) than her body being in Arcadia.

 

Possibility Three: Zoe's body is in the Storytime: Maybe when Zoe "woke up" from her coma, what really happened is that she Dream-projected herself into Stark, and her projection of herself swapped places with her physical body--so that her physical body would go to the Storytime.  This theory has the benefit that we don't have to worry about why no characters in the game notice the body.  The only person who could notice is the Vagabond, and more importantly, we haven't seen him or the Storytime since Zoe left it.  But this theory has a different problem, and that is...why?  Why would Zoe's body swap places with her projection?  There's no basis in the story so far for such a swap.  Is there some rule that says a Dreamer's body and her "Dream projection", as I've been referring to it, can't be in the same world at the same time?  Maybe, but if so, that's never been told to us.  Also, this theory is...I don't know, just less cool.  I like the idea that Zoe's body has been in Arcadia the whole time, or in a hospital bed in Stark.  But the idea that her body is in the Storytime, and she's Dreaming her way home...it's just not as interesting, but maybe that's subjective.

 

Possibility Four: Zoe's body is somewhere not revealed yet: Maybe she's in some world we haven't seen yet.  But, aside from the fact that that still doesn't explain how she got there, that would be the lamest plot twist idea yet.

 

So, that's what I've come up with.  Thoughts?


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#2 Pawlo_86

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 08:05

It was great reading. Remember that very last scene in Book Two where Zoe "reacted" in hospital after explosion? Zoe body can be in Casablanca.

#3 Maus Merryjest

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 08:14

 

Possibility Four: Zoe's body is somewhere not revealed yet: Maybe she's in some world we haven't seen yet.  But, aside from the fact that that still doesn't explain how she got there, that would be the lamest plot twist idea yet.

 

So, that's what I've come up with.  Thoughts?

 

This is the strongest possibility to me. It makes sense why we saw Zoe asleep at the end of Book two.

And she was wearing her old pink shirt, and her old hairdo.

The old hairdo that suddenly she is sporting in Arcadia, despite the fact that her dream projection in Books two and three had mirrored her current street clothes.

 

So... what happened? Zoe must not be in Stark, but she is also not in Arcadia, either. 

 

The one issue is this: when did Zoe's Stark body stop being her actual body?

When she decided to wake up from the coma, did she somehow manage to shift her body into the Storytime and project herself into Stark? That's impossible, at least as far as we know, Dreamers Dream, Shifters Shift, and they are both very different creatures.

 

Or did someone else help her?

 

And here's a thought- the two Zoes before she woke up from the coma...  what if they were actually two Zoes? A split of her personality, one holding on to the past, one wanting to move forward- and depending on our choice, one of them stayed behind in the Storytime?

This is really stretching it and crazy, but then that would mean that a part of Zoe is in Storytime, and a part of her is in Stark... and maybe the half of Zoe that is still in Storytime is considered to be the 'real' Zoe, and that is why her other half vanishes when transitioning from Stark to Arcadia.... she is the dream that Storytime Zoe is dreaming into the world?

 

Or maybe not. This is one pretty puzzle they've left for us.

 

Zoe's body COULD be in Casablanca... but it doesn't make sense. In this very restrictive cyber-society, wouldn't they be alerted of the fact that Zoe Castillo, who claims to have moved to Propast, is apparently still in a coma in a Casablanca hospital? Surely the EYE would have immediately arrested Zoe for identity theft.



#4 Pawlo_86

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 08:16

She is a Dreamer. It is another important clue to the puzzle.

#5 Maus Merryjest

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 08:22

Right, so it's clear that Zoe is neither in Arcadia nor Stark at this point. Or, rather, that her body isn't. The only thing that's the big puzzle for me is how the switcheroo took place-

 

Or, rather, when. Was there a point in Dreamfall where something like that could have happened? Gah, puzzles!

 

I admit I never finished Dreamfall. Not because I didn't like the game, I loved it. But I hated the action/stealth sections and their controls. There came a point when they got to be too much for me.


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#6 Pawlo_86

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 08:27

In Dreamfall White Dragon said that Zoe belongs to Storytime/Dreaming.
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#7 Maus Merryjest

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 08:35

In Dreamfall White Dragon said that Zoe belongs to Storytime/Dreaming.

... so THAT was the missing piece. 

 

I really would play Dreamfall again to finish it all the way through.. . but I was frustrated beyond measure by the troll hiding sequence. I don't think I'd have the patience to bear with it now, even.


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#8 CosmicD

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 09:23

Yeah, I like it how we didn't really get a resolution to this whole "zoë twitching in her comatose bed" scene, it's like something that still is going on and we're going to be revealed to bits of that later perhaps as she meets lux.

When I saw her "despawn" from the world, I was like "oh, that's what the release version of the dreamer does". You know that the difference in the previous dreamfall was that they still needed to drug people who use beta dreamers right. Maybe the difference lies herein that she actually IS in the story time but dreams herself into whatever place she wants, but with the beta version she could only be half in stark half in arcadia, and pops away from arcadia when the morpheus drugs loses it's effectiveness.

If she's fading away in stark, I was thinking this is just a general state of being for her.

But with a released dreamer, she's "triggered" all the way ?

Also, Somebody needs to do a real life dreamer unboxing :)



#9 Midnight

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 09:24

(...)

Possibility Two: Zoe's body IS in Stark, but Zoe's not in it: Ok, bear with me a moment.  Maybe Zoe didn't really "wake up" from the coma like she thinks she did.  Maybe she tried to, but what really happened is that she Dream-projected herself back to Stark without actually waking up.  So her body is still in the hospital, while the projection of her mind is running around Stark, just as material as when she was running around Arcadia in DF.  It's a little convoluted, I know, but if you think about it, it makes just as much sense as her actually waking up from the coma like she believes she did.  The major problem here is the same as the second problem I mentioned in the last one, though: why has no one noticed her body still sitting in the hospital?  Why wasn't there ever a point where Gabriel said, "Hey, uh, Zoe...there appear to be TWO of you now?"  It seems unfeasible.  Still, it's less problematic (albeit more complicated) than her body being in Arcadia.

(...)

Well Zoe has never met with Gabriel since she woke up did she? Did her journal mention anything about it? It always struck me as somewhat odd that she'd estrange so much from her dad after Dreamfall, since he really felt very supportive and nice to her - whatever she wanted to do with her future. Having to keep her being on Stark twice a secret would certainly explain why they're not supposed to meet. Reza I suspect to be in on the conspiracy anyway since Zoe claimed that it wasn't really him at the end of Dreamfall. That leaves the hospital staff and I wouldn't be surprised if Wati or whoever is behind the conspiracy had them either in their pocket or replaced too.

 

So the theory could be: Zoe never woke up after the events in Dreamfall, Gabriel has no reason to suspect there to be another one of her around somewhere else and Wati prepared for Reza, a psychiatrist and everything else to be in place so Zoe really believes that she's woken up. That's assuming they somehow have the means to monitor her in her dreams of course.


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#10 Clairobscur

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 10:02

In Dreamfall, Faith was given a large dose of Morpheus and her body died and her soul escaped into the Wire. At the end of Dreamfall, Helena Chang gives Zoë a large dose of the drug that might have killed Zoë's body and sent her soul to Storytime. From there, she could then dream herself back in Stark or anywhere else in order to complete her mission. If Gabriel has been out of the picture so far, that could be because he believes Zoë('s body) is dead.

 

Another idea: After Book Two, I suggested that Zoë's body was in the care of Helena Chang somewhere (possibly Casablanca). As Zoë's mother, she might have been in touch with Gabriel and they both decided to keep her secretly and that is why Gabriel is out of the picture. If we could get ahold of Wonkers, I am certain we could learn interesting things about what happened at the end of Dreamfall since he was there when Helena injected the drug in Zoë.

 

And a last thought: as seen in Book Three, science is getting its way into Arcadia. I am suspecting magic is getting into Stark as well. I have the impression both worlds are being "inverted", Arcadia becoming Stark and the other way around (it could also be the beginning of the reunification). What is causing this are DreamCore in Stark and the Dream engine in Arcadia. Both worlds are connected by dreams, dreams pass through both worlds, even more easily than before with the two machines. Zoë is a Dreamer, a Master of dreams. I am certain she could physically travel through this dream channel, which would explain why her body disappears from Propast.


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#11 Quatipu

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 10:04

@Midnight: My thoughts exactly.

So who isolates Zoe's body in the hospital? WATICorp or Helena Chang?


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#12 Clairobscur

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 10:18

So who isolates Zoe's body in the hospital? WATICorp or Helena Chang?

 

My thought is Helena Chang. Zoë is still wanted and tracked by WATI as we saw in Book Three with the Dreamachine and the EYE raid. Helena is also wanted by WATI. If she keeps Zoë under her control, she can have a better control over events or people (like Reza).


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#13 Pawlo_86

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 10:21

My thought is Helena Chang. Zoë is still wanted and tracked by WATI as we saw in Book Three with the Dreamachine and the EYE raid. Helena is also wanted by WATI. If she keeps Zoë under her control, she can have a better control over events or people (like Reza).

 

Helena Chang can be Fraulein and Falk works for her. She wants to keep eye on "dreaming" Zoe. Also i think that she put Zoe into coma for a reason. Maybe she knows that Zoe as Dreamer (and her "dreaming" part) is able to stop WATI and Dreamer stuff?


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#14 Clairobscur

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 10:31

Helena Chang can be Fraulein and Falk works for her. She wants to keep eye on "dreaming" Zoe. Also i think that she put Zoe into coma for a reason. Maybe she knows that Zoe as Dreamer (and her "dreaming" part) is able to stop WATI and Dreamer stuff?

 

Exactly. Maybe it's a cover, but she asked Zoë to help Faith. She could also ask Zoë to help her or the world. If Zoë's body is in Helena's care, my question is: why send her to Propast (other than drawing attention elsewhere Casablanca)? What is so special in Propast? I see two people: Queenie and Hanna, another dreamer. What are the chances that two dreamers live in the same place!?


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#15 Pawlo_86

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 10:34

There is something special about Propast. I don't mean those mysterious towers. Hanna is a Dreamer. Maybe from Arcadia. Quennie can be Kin. Green or Red. The little girl which Zoe saved in Storytime lived in Propast.


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#16 Emmote

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 10:38

My thought was something like Possibility Two and that Fraulein (Guessing Helena too) and Falk might have her body. But I'm not imaginative enough to think of anything more elaborate.


--Emmo


#17 Pawlo_86

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 10:39

Long before release of Book One Ragnar tweeted a picture from development where Zoe was in her home in Casablanca.


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#18 Clairobscur

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 10:45

Crazy idea: Helena engineered Faith, who is a Dreamer. Who knows if she didn't engineer more and maybe kept them for herself? In this case, Hanna could have been engineered by Helena and sent to the Kingdom for safety but kept under surveillance. And when Hanna went to Propast, Helena sent Zoë there for them to meet! It would also mean that Hanna is Zoë's sister!


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#19 Pawlo_86

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 10:53

Crazy idea: Helena engineered Faith, who is a Dreamer. Who knows if she didn't engineer more and maybe kept them for herself? In this case, Hanna could have been engineered by Helena and sent to the Kingdom for safety but kept under surveillance. And when Hanna went to Propast, Helena sent Zoë there for them to meet! It would also mean that Hanna is Zoë's sister!

 

What if Zoe was also engineered by Chang?



#20 Stargazer

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 11:02

What if Zoe was also engineered by Chang?


I'm pretty sure she is. That's what makes her and Faith sisters.
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