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Queer Representation in Book 3


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#1 lenimph

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 02:44

I want to talk about all the LGBTQ related stuff that happened in book 3... there was Hannah and err forgot the name of her girlfriend and they seemed to be on much happier terms then in the last book and that made me really happy. 

 

But actually what surprised me most was the conversation that Kian had with Likho in the beginning... at least in my playthrough, the way Kian was explaining everything about Azadi culture and the relationships between the priestress and between the guards made it sound like he was like the people he was describing or asexual. Is this conversation different if you reciprocate Anna's kiss? 

 

It was cool to see everything amount to more then a few cute gay bars I couldnt go into so kudos to RedThread you have made this queer girl proud. 


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#2 Aj17

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 02:47

Kian bluntly came out as gay in my version of the game, that's how I took it anyway. Don't see what the big deal is lol 


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#3 loranna238

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 03:16

Kian bluntly came out as gay in my version of the game, that's how I took it anyway. Don't see what the big deal is lol 

Or at least bi.



#4 Aj17

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 03:28

Can take it either way really, not like he pulled away from the chick at the end of book 3 xD poor Kian, everyone wants him haha.


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#5 virumor

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 03:55

We're just getting trolled again.

After the revelations about Anna, I don't even care anymore.

#6 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 05:48

Yeah, that's really interesting with the Likho conversation... I'll have to get my second playthrough caught up so I can see that conversation. 

 

I had the Enu conversation, and I wasn't sure if that comment was meant to be taken as him being gay or him being asexual/aromantic or maybe just him being really focused on everything else and not caring about relationships.

 

I don't really care either way, but I was kind of like "Aww, that would be nice" and now by the end i'm not entirely sure. 

 

Mnn...

 

I did really like seeing Hanna and Abby though. ^_^ I was so happy for them!


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#7 charmed23

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 09:24

wait, so does Kian still come out as bi at least if he kisses Anna???

My Kian didn't kiss Anna because, well duh, I don't even know who this woman is. But if the decision to not kiss Anna really like BAM, "Your Choices had Consequences", and now my Kian is gay, then well Ragnar we need to talk haha! 
Not complaining because this new Kian is so crazy hot :wub:  

However one serious thing, guys, why does Kian look extremely Caucasian right now  :( I do really dig his new look and the masculinity that comes with the awesome hair and beard, but Kian in Dreamfall was so at least mixed-race, with his dark tanned brown skin.

The new models of Zoe and Kian are just gorgeous in DFC, but I'm sad to see their unique ethnicity backgrounds fading away  :( 
 



#8 Vainamoinen

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 10:09

I need more detail on the "bluntly gay" description of Kian.

 

He said he wasn't interested in women in my game, but that's about it. Strictly speaking, I neither got a gay nor asexual vibe – just that his mind is focused on other things and distractions aren't welcome.

 

Regardless: Book 3 had the first kiss in the entire Dreamer cycle that didn't feel awkward to me. Heh. :)


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#9 WorldsReunited

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 10:13

I need more detail on the "bluntly gay" description of Kian.
 
He said he wasn't interested in women in my game, but that's about it. Strictly speaking, I neither got a gay nor asexual vibe – just that his mind is focused on other things and distractions aren't welcome.

For me it was more the way Enu "connected the dots" and Kian not saying she was wrong.
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#10 grantprobst

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 10:15

Oh come on, Kian clearly has a thing for goats.  All of the signs are there.  ;p


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#11 Emmote

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 10:54

From the official responses on Steam, Kian is gay.
Link is here, though personally I'd avoid that discussion. Some of the people in it are... not nice.
http://steamcommunit...90046870955520/
 

Kian is gay regardless of whether or not he kissed Anna — that choice had no effect on his sexual orientation :)

 
 

Wait... So, he's gay ?

Yes


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#12 virumor

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 12:06

Well, this is going to make future interaction with Anna hilariously awkward.

...

Or is Anna crossdressing male?
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#13 holisk

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 13:01

I am proud how RTG is dealing with that thread. I am Hastings on there. While I am iffy about how they chose to deal with the sexuality, it was great to see another LGBT representation. I played TLJ because I heard of the positive representation. it's nice to see that continued right now.

 

I am hoping that the media doesn't blow up on this.


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#14 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 13:11

See, for me it was a combination of things that made me go "Is...Is this basically Kian coming out...?"

 

I didn't kiss Anna, so in the opening recap the screen about that says something about not wanting to lead her on. Then that scene with Enu. And it wasn't so much that he said he wasn't interested in women, it was the way she connected the dots and then his response to that (or...lack of response...I guess...). Like Worlds said. 

 

Like I literally messaged Randy and was like "...I think...I think Kian just came out, maybe, a little and I AM SO FREAKING HAPPY."

 

But then by the end I was wondering if I'd misinterpreted.

 

Spoiler

 

So yeah. Good to know I wasn't totally off base. And also huge props to Red Thread for positive representation and, as always, taking everything in stride. And, you know...being able to say things like "a kiss doesn't change your sexual orientation." 


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#15 Christoffer Sunrider Grav

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 13:22

I am proud how RTG is dealing with that thread. I am Hastings on there. While I am iffy about how they chose to deal with the sexuality, it was great to see another LGBT representation. I played TLJ because I heard of the positive representation. it's nice to see that continued right now.

 

I am hoping that the media doesn't blow up on this.

 

Hi! Just curious, what exactly was "iffy" about how we handled Kian's sexuality? As a gay guy myself I'm slightly taken aback that anyone would find those scenes "iffy". In both cases (talking to Enu or Likho) it comes up as quite a natural topic. Kian isn't much of a sharer, but he is opening up to a character he feels close to. 


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#16 Luelle

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 14:11

It's awesome that Kian is gay, although I initially thought that he's asexual (and there's literally no representation of asexual characters in games/films/tv shows/etc  :( ).

 

But now I'm just really confused... In TLJ old!April is Lady Alvane and for many, many years I thought that she married Kian. But now we know that Kian is gay, so how is she related to him? Is she his grandmother? A distant relative? We just don't know...


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#17 grantprobst

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 14:14

I typically kind of groan at how stupidly gay/lesbian stuff gets shoehorned into popular media these days... just for the sake of doing it. 

(...and how people won't ever shut the hell up about the issue!)

 

But, I will say that even back to The Longest Journey, I have been impressed with how Ragnar handles the topic in his writing.

In his stories, gay/lesbian characters are usually more three dimensional (like they should be!), and not just a cheap gimmick or joke.

 

So, I appreciate the effort that goes into making something that isn't quite so cliched and overdone.  :)


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#18 artemisofephesus

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 14:21

I was really happy to see both Hanna and Abby in a better, and more visibly queer place! My Kian also said that he was 'not interested in women,' and I know that many people are reading that as him being gay, but I really don't think we can say he's anything other than 'not-straight' at this point. Just because someone isn't interested in the opposite sex doesn't automatically make them interested in the same sex. Case in point: when I was fourteen I realised I wasn't into guys, and I automatically assumed I was a lesbian, and was fine with that. Took me six more years to figure out that actually, I wasn't into women either.

 

Either way, I'm interested in replaying in order to hear the discussion with Likho. It seems to also bring in the idea of cultural differences in how attraction/sexuality is expressed - we obviously can't always assume everyone else's perspectives and practises to be the same as ours. Just going off what other people have said here.

 

Like the previous posts, I also think that this book in particular does a great job at queer representation in a way that doesn't make a whole big song and dance about it, but still recognises that people's sexual identities aren't invisible when they're not straight. The straightforwardness of Kian saying he wasn't interested in women (in my playthrough), and the way that Hanna and Abby shared a moment of intimacy in a dangerous situation felt very normal and very appropriate for the context. That's what I like to see - queer sexuality that is visible, acknowledged and accepted without necessarily being a big drama. I think that it is one of the most positive ways of writing queer characters.

 

That said, Ragnar, I would love for there to be an obvious nod to an asexual Kian. Humour us poor souls who have even less representation? :P


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#19 Sebsghost

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 14:43

I thought I would transcribe the Likho conversation for those who'd like it:

Spoiler

 

In other words, it's painfully obvious that Kian is gay if you chose the Likho route. 

 

And honestly? I think it's freaking awesome that Kian is gay. I think this is the first game I've ever played where you can play as a gay man and not just playersexual or bisexual or whatever. And I'm really freaking proud of RTG for breaking a boundary like this, it's amazing to play a character who's, well, like me, in that respect.

 

I know people will complain that it should have been stated earlier or that the Anna kiss shouldn't have been a choice, but you know what? I like it, because it made me think. I, like many people, assumed Kian was probably straight. But that's just evidence of heterosexism - we assume people are straight unless they tell us otherwise, it's the 'default'. People were already planning to get with Enu or Na'ane or Anna without even stopping to ask if Kian was actually interested in girls. And no, a kiss does not dictate someone's sexuality, especially not one that was forced upon them! It's a good lesson not to assume someone's sexuality, though one that unfortunately not everyone seemed to understand (Lookin' at you, Steam thread).

 

I just hope Kian will get as many romance opportunities as Zoe has had so far. Make the bigots squirm RTG. <3


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#20 Vainamoinen

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 14:56

It's awesome that Kian is gay, although I initially thought that he's asexual (and there's literally no representation of asexual characters in games/films/tv shows/etc  :( ).

 

Certainly underrepresented, yeah. But if you're looking for specifically asexual characters – Erin from the Girls with Slingshots comics is about the only one I've noticed.


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