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#21 Jecica

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 20:39

Jonathan Boakes horror adventure games? I can't wait his Lost Crown continuation! One of the more enjoyable horrors I've played (the whole black-and-white gameplay gave it even more spookier vibe). I agree, the scenery in Draugen definitely feels like Boakes' games.


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#22 Vainamoinen

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 13:14

I seem to remember Ragnar having mentioned Gone Home as an inspiration as well, although that's not a scary game. And that people will probably say "it is not a game" about Draugen. 

 

 

Well how's that for anticipating scathing critique.

 

That probably means that puzzles are right out and survival horror mechanics (action-adventure/provision stock inventory) won't be in as well. Naming Amnesia and Outlast as sources of inspiration for a game that might be called "not a game" is misleading. To me, this sounds more like the Dear Esther concept transferred to the horror genre. Not that that game was bad or even "not a game", really (I usually see "not a game" as the helpless, insulting game evaluation of a player who isn't able to express what his problem with the product actually was).

 

Dear Esther was, however, a genre experiment that saw its limitations immediately. The player experienced a completely linear story at his own pace, from his own perspective, with his chosen level of completeness. The protagonist didn't drive the story, the environment was unresponsive. The only interactivity was exploration. With a whole lot of narrative effort, that mechanic may carry a game. But certainly not above Dear Esther's length, which was a little over an hour. I guess RTG would want to exceed that length.

 

To mix such a lack of game mechanics with a fairly lengthy story AND the horror genre, that's bold, because the demand might not actually be out there. The Horror fans are used to action/skill based games, very much so. They expect real threats, the possibility to die, time constraints, resource management. The adventure game fans will still feel the horror with less time constraints, but do demand player agency all the more. The first person perspective has its clear roots in the shooter genre, and I think that corresponding expectations are still there, although of course first person perspective has been successfully implemented in other genres as well; narratively, it usually diverts attention away from the protagonist though.

 

Draugen might simply not have a target group. But alas, it's too early to tell. The Kickstarter will have to make an honest effort at explaining the game's appeal and mechanics. But the crowd funding campaign will not only answer the pressing questions about the game's mechanics - its success or lack thereof will also deliver quite absolute statements about player acceptance and demand. 


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#23 toremygg

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 13:40

It's a long time since I've agreed this wholeheartedly with one of you posts, V. ;)



#24 Ragnar

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 15:27

Well how's that for anticipating scathing critique.

 

That probably means that puzzles are right out and survival horror mechanics (action-adventure/provision stock inventory) won't be in as well. Naming Amnesia and Outlast as sources of inspiration for a game that might be called "not a game" is misleading. To me, this sounds more like the Dear Esther concept transferred to the horror genre. Not that that game was bad or even "not a game", really (I usually see "not a game" as the helpless, insulting game evaluation of a player who isn't able to express what his problem with the product actually was).

 

There will be 'puzzles'. You won't simply be an observer in Draugen: you will participate, engage, make choices and interact with the world.

 

Oh, and Gone Home is most definitely a game. I remember Dreamfall getting that 'not a game' stamp back in the day. Luckily, there's no committee that decides which games are allowed to call themselves that, and we now have a wide range of interactive experiences.

 

Draugen will take inspiration from both Gone Home, Dear Esther, Amnesia and other games — both horror and otherwise — in order to craft what we hope will be a brand new and exciting experiment in storytelling.

 

Ragnar


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#25 Jedi Leo

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 19:10

I have not play Dear Esther yet, but I played Gone Home and I can see why some people would call it "not a game", rather an interactive story. I personally enjoy puzzles not only because they are stimulating, but because they prolong the gameplay, which is a very important factor especially nowadays where games are so much shorter than they used to be.

 

Glad to hear Draugen will have puzzles :D


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#26 Jedi Leo

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 19:12

 

The Kickstarter will have to make an honest effort at explaining the game's appeal and mechanics. 

 

Speaking of which Ragnar or anyone at RTG, any news on when the Kickstarter campaign will kick off? (see what I did there? LOL) When can we set a date in the calendar? :)


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#27 Icetears

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 22:37

Well, Dear Esther got the "It's not a game" too because the only thing you do is walking around looking while you are listning to a voice that appears sometimes in the game.. 

So,  what is a defintion on a "game"? Does it have to follow some criterias like; it needs to have a story behide? Or may it just because a game because I  say so? Look at all the simulators out there, people are looking they as a game too.. So I believe it is the producers who are laying the line what they are making is all about, it is a game if they say so..

 

What's about Draugen, it looks stunning and awesome.. I clearly see on the trailer that it's made in Unity and that is even cooler!

 

I also expected slayerman to show up anytime in the trailer! :D



#28 Ragnar

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 17:07

Speaking of which Ragnar or anyone at RTG, any news on when the Kickstarter campaign will kick off? (see what I did there? LOL) When can we set a date in the calendar? :)

 

There are two things we need to do first:

 

Deliver on our Dreamfall Chapters Kickstarter promises by shipping T-shirts and fulfilling as many of the backer rewards as possible — this is our FIRST priority. We don't feel we can ask our fans for a single dollar/pound/euro/krone until we've proven that we're capable of delivering on our promises. Delays are excusable, up to a point, and we've reached that point.

 

Secondly, we need to design and produce the best campaign we possibly can — one that explains what Draugen is all about, lives up to the promise of the setting, the story and the design, stirs emotions (the feels!) and gives people a real incentive and reason to put their money down. We're not just going to throw it out there: we're going to work hard to deliver, and if we're going to succeed then, by god, we're going to EARN it.

 

So, y'know, soon?

 

The tentative plan is to make it happen before summer, and I hope that's possible. We're working on both of the above points, and when we're ready, we'll let you know.

 

Ragnar


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#29 Vainamoinen

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 17:41

Oh, and Gone Home is most definitely a game. I remember Dreamfall getting that 'not a game' stamp back in the day. Luckily, there's no committee that decides which games are allowed to call themselves that, and we now have a wide range of interactive experiences.

 

I've come to hate that stamp, "not a game". I'm with Brenda Brathwaite here, wo defines game design as the process of creating opportunities for the player to make meaningful decisions. Can't think of a game to fail that definition. Of course Dreamfall is a game, of course The Walking Dead is, of course Dragon's Lair is. The only questions are if and why a certain type of game mechanic appeals to you or fails to do so.

 

Needless to say, I'm glad for every step Draugen makes in the direction of the more traditional forms of the adventure game. Also, quite opposed to some others, I believe the Draugen project is a very necessary one for RTG. I'm not into survival horror much, but I never wanted RTG to just be the "Longest Journey Studio". It's good that Draugen is in the making, it's good that it's in the pipeline before The Longest Journey Home, and if it actually helps to bridge the development time between Chapters and TLJH - and therewith enables you to postpone the TLJH Kickstarter until AFTER Chapters releases - I will certainly not be unhappy that you attempted this.


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#30 Anarkigut

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 22:36

Although i wholeheartedly agree in the riddiculisness of the "not s game" argument, i think it has become a strawman argument. IT has allready been discussed to death, and there is really no one worth having an argument with that use the argument. Offcourse you have sone COD fans who would think so, but thats also an person who never would enjoy or buy such a game.

Besides, is it really relevant or important?

#31 Anarkigut

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 23:53

Draugen might simply not have a target group. But alas, it's too early to tell. The Kickstarter will have to make an honest effort at explaining the game's appeal and mechanics. But the crowd funding campaign will not only answer the pressing questions about the game's mechanics - its success or lack thereof will also deliver quite absolute statements about player acceptance and demand.


Well, salesmanship 101 is to not worry, or waste youre energy on convincing those that are never going to buy your product.

The way i see it rtg has made a choice to exclude probably most of the mass-market by making a game like this. It's appealing to a small niche of the market. Still, this niche market for story-driven "experimental" games has proved itself to be fruitfull with games like journey, gone home etc.

A common misstake is to judge the chance for sucsess by the (potensial) size of the market. Probably the easyest way to go broke as a dev is to make a game designed to appeal to the mass market simply because there are way to much competition wich are bigger, and have more skills, resources and money.

And this is just the evil finacial argument. There's offcourse also much better artistical, spiritual, and fun-wise arguments to make such a game.

RTG, please dont give a fuck about what people that are never going to buy or enjoy the game thinks.

That beeing said, you do make some valid points, but i feel that Ragnar in his reply allready has adressed those.

#32 Jedi Leo

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 12:03

Rather than the "is it a game or is it not a game" discussion, I would just put it in terms of the level of interactivity a game is. I mean there is a player and there is something that is being played, hence obviously it must be a game :) However some are more interactive than others, some are nearly only just stories which unfold by the click of the mouse.

 

As I said, I personally prefer a game with puzzles and a good level of interactivity that goes beyond mere exploration, so looking forward to Draugen as it sounds like it will have the kind of balance I like :)


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#33 Anarkigut

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 19:11

Rather than the "is it a game or is it not a game" discussion, I would just put it in terms of the level of interactivity a game is. I mean there is a player and there is something that is being played, hence obviously it must be a game :) However some are more interactive than others, some are nearly only just stories which unfold by the click of the mouse.
 
As I said, I personally prefer a game with puzzles and a good level of interactivity that goes beyond mere exploration, so looking forward to Draugen as it sounds like it will have the kind of balance I like :)


I think you are narrowing the interactive potensial of exploration and observation. I think exploration on the one hand could be totallly un-interactive, but it could also be very interactive and include puzzles Even though you simply observe, and explore.

That being said, i think it demands tons of talent, and it does not seem to be the direction Draugen is taking. (But i do think rtg has the talent).

Btw. Is it potensial, or potencial?

#34 Jedi Leo

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 19:15

I think you are narrowing the interactive potensial of exploration and observation. I think exploration on the one hand could be totallly un-interactive, but it could also be very interactive and include puzzles Even though you simply observe, and explore.

That being said, i think it demands tons of talent, and it does not seem to be the direction Draugen is taking. (But i do think rtg has the talent).

Btw. Is it potensial, or potencial?

 

Potential :) Interactive exploration for me kinda includes some puzzles or at least picking up things you can use later on (so inventory stuff). Personally I like some puzzles as they prolong the gameplay time , but not too hard , otherwise I have to resort to a walkthrough and I HATE that hehe


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#35 Anarkigut

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 21:30

Potential :) Interactive exploration for me kinda includes some puzzles or at least picking up things you can use later on (so inventory stuff). Personally I like some puzzles as they prolong the gameplay time , but not too hard , otherwise I have to resort to a walkthrough and I HATE that hehe


Offcourse! (Potential). It's because of that damned language you danes gave us.

I mostly agree, my point is that it's possible to have puzzles and tasks you need to do in order to progress the story simply through exploration and observation. And yeah, i Mustafa regrettably say that i use walkthrough's more than i like to admit ;-)

#36 Anarkigut

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 21:33

Ahh, damned (norwegian) autocorrect. I did not intend to write Mustafa. :-P
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#37 DiskJunky

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 14:23

I love the English phone autocorrect (T9) which keeps putting the word "dual" instead of a particular English swear word. Makes for some interesting sentences.


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#38 Anarkigut

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 14:38

A great article on the subject on ign:

http://www.ign.com/a...ver-an-industry
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#39 demonofelru

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 15:07

I love horror games. Amnesia was terrifying and suspenseful. I love puzzle games, thus why I am on these forums. Making a game that combines the two is fantastic, in my opinion, and I can't wait to contribute.


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#40 DiskJunky

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 16:16

A great article on the subject on ign:

http://www.ign.com/a...ver-an-industry

Very intriguing...that's added a few title to me to-do pile :)


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