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Which political party do you support after Book 2?

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Poll: Which political party do you support after Book 2? (59 member(s) have cast votes)

Which political party do you support after Book 2

  1. European Dawn (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. Alliance of European Democrats for Freedom and Liberty (3 votes [5.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.08%

  3. Unity (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. Manifesto (Marxists) (22 votes [37.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 37.29%

  5. None (34 votes [57.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 57.63%

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#21 Z43

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 12:28

Yeah, you are obviously not.

What does it feel like working for a fascist regime, trampling all over the working people?


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#22 Dolmari Gamble

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 12:36

What does it feel like working for a fascist regime, trampling all over the working people?

You tell me


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#23 loranna238

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 13:08

There is a possibility that Uminska (btw did you see the poster where she looks like Princess Leia...just thought that was cool) was framed, but I doubt it as if you take the path where you tell Baruti about it he dies.

 

The Marxists are impractical, though they would probably resist being bribed.  They do not understand how government and economy really works I think.  That is a huge problem.

 

European Dawn sound from the descriptions people are talking about to be bullies of the first order.  

 

That kind of leaves the Alliance...the existing power structure.  It seems like Wolfe, Uminska and Wati are desperately trying to topple them and since I at this point don't like either one of them...the existing government it is.



#24 MailMan

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 13:15

Let's keep a level head everyone, no need for any name-calling and pointless accusations. It's a safe bet that you don't know each other, and you'd be able to manage a civilized conversation face-to-face.

 

Politics are an important aspect of the game which can - or should - be discussed, but please don't let your views on real-life politics overshadow the thread in a negative way.


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#25 Dmm

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 13:17

...may I remind also that the founding fathers of The United States of America were also slave-owners and the fact that slaves should be freed and be voting citizens didn't even occur to them, despite their proven democratic idealism.

 

It did occur to them to at least end slavery. The main reason it wasn't pushed is due to the fragile nature of the United States at that time. The people in the 13 original states were more loyal to their own state than to the nation. The great fear was that if the colonies went their separate ways the European powers would be back. The country could have easily broken apart if there was an insistence on ending slavery at that time and of course many years later when they tried to end slavery it did break apart, bringing about civil war.



#26 cerb998

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 13:47

Voting in Europolis seems to be a lot like voting IRL, which in turn is a lot like the choices in Mass Effect. Would you like your slavery in red, green or blue?


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#27 Tomer

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 14:26

If voting could change anything it would be illegal ;)

 

:o  People who really believe that are not entitled to live in a democracy. That's a much better proverb.

 

To the topic: Seeing how politics are over there, I'd say they need a revolution they cannot achieve with a mere vote. But if I have to choose, assuming Umniska is really in it with Kaiser Konstantin, I'd choose the Marxists. What other options are there?



#28 mrKnask

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 14:40

It was (mostly) a joke ;)
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#29 ct2651

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 14:47

Well, the thing I see is - you have the masses with lack of information or/and interest. They will most probably vote for one of the parties that are corrupted for sure. By not voting, you actually vote for those parties as well. If most people stopped voting based on disgust, distrust, disappointment and lack of any idea what to do - you would most probably just hand the elections to the most dangerous parties, because they will have their core voters who will come no matter what.

So even if Marxists turn out to be involved with WATI and EYE as well - the probability of that is right now the lowest. I believe voting for them is the best solution based on pure statistics and probability. If they turn out to be evil as well, it just means that there was no "good" choice. But there is a chance they really are mostly composed of people that want to try and change things and this chance is virtually zero with the remaining parties.

 

If everyone is evil, only a revolution can save Dreamfall's Europe. It's not a guaranteed victory either, since chaos tends to provide with pretty much random results, but... even a small chance to randomly ignite a wave of good change is better than sitting back and watching WATI go all Orwell on us. Them.

 

Well, you explain why we should always vote even if our vote seems useless, it actually stop extreme parties to be elected...



#30 Dolmari Gamble

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 15:18

:o  People who really believe that are not entitled to live in a democracy. That's a much better proverb.

 

To the topic: Seeing how politics are over there, I'd say they need a revolution they cannot achieve with a mere vote. But if I have to choose, assuming Umniska is really in it with Kaiser Konstantin, I'd choose the Marxists. What other options are there?

So, um. How many time have your vote influenced anything? I have posted a link in my first post on this page which should cover that.

Also it's funny how you don't even consider voting for democrats. Heh.


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#31 MailMan

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 15:30

So, um. How many time have your vote influenced anything? I have posted a link in my first post on this page which should cover that.

Also it's funny how you don't even consider voting for democrats. Heh.

 

In Switzerland, quite many things are decided by public votes. Just sayin'.


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#32 khh

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 16:33

You can't base your entire view on democracy on the weakness exposed in a particular attempted implementation in one particular video. Especially not when the video is as poor as the one you linked to. It didn't say anything about how the different opinions whose impact it measured were distributed in the population, for instance. In fact it didn't go into the issue at all, it just said that there was a study once and then made wild assertions. 


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#33 deckarde

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 16:47

I don't really know enough about the political system to decide. If it's a british/scandinavian style where the party leader can (and often is) replaced midterm I would vote Unity. Even if it's an american style election where you literaly elect the -person-... I would still  vote for Unity. Because it's the least bad option, in my mind.

 

I have strong believes in real life, so that might affect it as well.


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#34 Tomer

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 17:00

So, um. How many time have your vote influenced anything? I have posted a link in my first post on this page which should cover that.

 

This question is so wrong, I wouldn't even know where to start. Everything my country is, with all its laws and ideologies, is a direct result of what people vote. Yesterday, Binyamin Netanyahu was reelected in Israel because masses of people voted for him. I came to Israel from Berlin (where I currently live) only to vote against him, but we, unfortunately, failed. The political balance in Israel would be completely and utterly different with the left-center coalition I was hoping to have. Alas, we have lost - and this changes everything. This is the story of my country. I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. 

 

Let's put it like this: I find that people who don't vote have zero legitimacy to complain about anything, unless they chose to live in some anarchist village which is independent of society in every sense. 

 

 

 

 

Also it's funny how you don't even consider voting for democrats. Heh.

 

 

Ah, that's just because of who I am. Of course, others may see the Democrats as an alternative ;)


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#35 inspector

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 17:11

When posting the poll, ı didn't want to create a controversy. However since politics itself is a controversial issue, it is normal that people have differing and controversial opinions. What ı want to say is if the people of europolis learn about the scandal involving unity and dawn, they will give reactions similar to those in this forum and in the poll results.

Lets think about only in terms of the game's universe. When the results of the previous and present polls are compared, we can see that the votes of Unity has decreased abruptly. Votes of Dawn and Alliance are also lower. Marxists have higher votes. But as ı expected many people will choose not to vote. It can be assumed that this may sonewhat represent the situation in the game.

After the scandal, Manifesto seems to be the most logical party to vote for. However some people see communists as radical. At this exact situation a member of marxist Party is involved in a terrorist attack, which strengthens this idea. Also due to the political scandal many people will lose their hope for all the political parties and the elections.

We can assume that at least one group is influencing the political arena behind the curtain. I do not know whether this is waticorp, corporations or some other powerful organization. It may also be possible that someone is orchestrating a revolution that will affect not one but actually two worlds.

But as suggested before anything can happen during and after chaos.

#36 urzagc13

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 17:26

There's one more thing that you didn't take into account, inspector. In-universe, a significant number of people will simply not believe the media revealing the scandal because they don't trust the media, or they believe in their chosen party too much and they will consider such news as obviously fake in order to manipulate people's vote. We players have more information than the citizens of Europolis, and even we are not 100% sure that the accusations are true and not some kind of conspiracy.
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#37 inspector

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 17:33

There's one more thing that you didn't take into account, inspector. In-universe, a significant number of people will simply not believe the media revealing the scandal because they don't trust the media, or they believe in their chosen party too much and they will consider such news as obviously fake in order to manipulate people's vote. We players have more information than the citizens of Europolis, and even we are not 100% sure that the accusations are true and not some kind of conspiracy.


Yeah, you are right. I also do not think the votes of three parties will be around zero as in this poll. However they will decrese, or at least some people aim this.

#38 magritte

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 17:43

@urzagc13, you raise an excellent point.  This sort of reaction to scandals can be seen all over the place (recent stuff in Turkey for example).

 

@loranna238, I gave the data to Baruti on the off chance that Uminska was either being framed or acting without the backing of the party insiders...but I don't think that explanation is viable in view of his death.

 

Honestly, although my own politics are closer to Uminska's in real life, even in Chapter One, I felt like the system in Europolis needed to be blown up and that the communists would have gotten my vote on that basis.  After Chapter Two, I feel like they're clearly headed for a corporate police state, and I don't think the election will be allowed to change that no matter what.  Maybe it won't even happen.  Nela's bombing might be the pretext for them to declare a state of emergency.


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#39 Stormwhisper

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 17:43

To Tomer:

 

I had discussed this issue with friends many times and many times reality and real outcome of elections got me on the "loosers side", even voting for the party i trusted more for the ideas and the solutions it presented to the situation in my Country (Italy). so personally, as I've explained before I am for voting, at least for the jesture and to defend the right to vote, becuse not voting, as it becomes a use of great number equals disinterest in politics and has Dangerous outcomes on the horizon that Italy has already been through no matter what one thinks about that period and it's positive\negative outcomes.

 

Some of my friends and people i know decided and stand by their word of not even try to vote, as they say that there is no party that represents them anymore, even if they say so, the fact is that they don't stand by their promises and their mottos, so it's like not having them made or presented to the electors as it is, right now a subtle and rhethorical "lie"; so it's not them who neglect the vote but it's the parties who are not standing to their words and ideals, somewhat openly, demonstrating a general sickness of the political system, that could only be cured by introducing new, real ideas and politics, which are laking because a sinthesis of corruption and economical interests which are tightly tied to political parties resulting in making the truest and more loyal person forced not to do what has to be done, and this sickness is so contagious that one can not enter politics without being involved in this, so there is little hope for a "cure".

 

By now it's all about great bla,blas on television and newspapers while "someone who works behind" has all the gain, so it makes somewhat sense to loose hope and interest in politics where there are no real politics at all but just mere words.

 

Others blindingly listen to these words and have a much easuier way to chose who to vote, as by mottos and words one can still find some identification, but looking a little deeper in the facts and the outcomes, those mainly remain just words with no real consequence, so who is really to blame?

 

Choose to live in some anarchist village which is indipendent of society in every sense: is it really possible within a globalized world? wherever there are interests of some kind something bigger than a village gets involved and the proportions would mache this "utopistic village" (?) fall in the hands of the strongest, just because it is placed in a region with maybe some resource which is an interesting goal for the bigger entity, whatever the resource may be.

 

Also one could just think about minimal resources, but how can I idealize my little countryside where i grow potatoes and things where just a few miles away, out of my perimeter there is something that can influence the growth of my vegetables, or my animals in the farm, by pollution, radioactive rains and so on, things "I" can't have influence on.

 

Being this other anarchist villages makes it a country by itself, and if the countries around it make decisions that influence my status quo "I" can't easily stand against those decisions without interferring with them, and again what am "I" to have another (probably) bigger country do what "I" want and what would be in "my" interest if the purpose of making "my own" country is based on the fact that "I" don't share the political and enviromental decisions of the other country "I" came from?

 

So, i simplified a lot, but it would take books to analyze such "solution", and I think I'm going mostly off topic here, but it was something of concern I thought could be Worth saying.

 

I still think this thread is very delicate and it could touch some sensitive spots that come close to personal as discussing the fictional politics of Dreamfall has to have some implications with how we personally view the politics of the real world that affect us, so to all: no offense meant, and I'm just expressing some of my personal thoughts as I reply here, and by doing this I'm particularly influenced by how deep the simplified topics of tLJ\Dreamfall Saga go and have touched me in these years, as there are many of them which demonstrated a brave and true soul behind them, not afraid to throw in delicate, mature and conflictual content, not to provoke arguement, but to give perspective and issues to think about while we wander through such splendid and deep journey, so no wonder one can feel deeply touched and feeling the need to express also some serious and intimate thoughts :)



#40 Z43

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 17:47

So, um. How many time have your vote influenced anything?

Hasn't Simferopolis voted itself into a whole other country just a year ago?

 

Of course the political situation in Europolis is nowhere near as mutable, but so long as we're talking in general.


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