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hannah anna saga first dreamer lady alvane

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#1 despaiens

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 18:46

Typical lurker thing, pop in for one theory loaded post and never write anything again...  I would prefer to post this in some other thread but it seems to overlap with several different threads and I can't decide which would be most appropriate, so I will leave that to mods if they think it the right way.  Parts of this have been suggested at or said by others...

 

Basically train of thought starts with Hannah.  The implication that she's a dreamer, emphasized by Zoe's reaction rubs wrong and I go with the shifter idea, thinking nighttime shifts are dreams.  Combined with the drawings it puts her as a solid reborn April/Saga candidate (and maybe not even nighttime shifts yet but more past life regression stuff... or what is it, anamnesis...?).

 

I also think Anna as part of the chain with all the similarities others have noted.  She's obviously older, and others have written that off as some dream form or whatever but I'm suspecting some House of All World's time-foolery.  So it goes that a young Hannah is embittered and confused and after whatever discovery she undergoes in the future of her heritage, past-life(ves), and powers decides to right some wrongs through the HoW wormhole and goes back to "an important time" to work with Kian.  She just gives off that whole "back from the future, knowing you already though you don't know me yet" vibe.  

 

This is all a bit crazy but if the April-Saga-Hannah-Anna chain ends in Lady Alvane, it's not the first time that Lady Alvane has gone back in time through the HoW to correct some details from one of her stories (TLJ as we all remember).  Going further, this implies to me the theory of Lady Alvane being the White Lady from Dreamfall, "rebooting" April to bring about her Anna incarnation to move things along a different path... redrafting the story as it were.  The Alvane chain also goes back to the oft-quoted idea of Ragnar's: to create a game where you play through the same character at different life stages.  It's just clever of him, if correct, to put them all acting to a degree within the same general time frame.

 

Changing gears but ultimately related I think, the first Dreamer and Zoe's shared uniqueness and importance (even Draic-Kin haven't seen Dreamers before) make me think of that dreamer of the world, Vishnu.  He had many different avatars who were born and lived within the world as incarnations of himself to right wrongs being done (Rama and Krishna being famous examples).  Reminded of Zoe's dreaming herself places and dreaming things real, I wonder if she isn't herself a dreaming form, or incarnation, of the sleeping First Dreamer...  The sleeping Dreamer is dreaming itself into the world as Zoe, that is, to combat the Undreaming.

 

From that perspective, Lady Alvane takes on a different interpretation to me.  She becomes less older April/Saga whatever and more a complimentary figure to the Dreamer, the Storyteller perhaps.  Dreams, the child, provide the raw material and shape the world and from this raw material stories, picture and art are fashioned.  A wise, old woman sitting beside a fire in a house outside of time telling stories in opposition to a young child dreaming the perpetual dream of the world. Of course this starts to overlap a little with the Vagabond in function but from his own words he tends the individual threads and can't see the larger weave which maybe goes more to Lady Alvane...  If correct this could suggest the importance of her avatars to be "waves" and create individual stories within the larger Dream, to "fix" things.  Etta and the importance we sensed in her stories also coming to mind here.

 

This starts to suggest a twist on the Trimurti (even the Moirai a little...), which leaves the Shiva/destructive force in the hands of the Undreaming? the Thief of Dreams? If all of our characters are avatars of these Trimurti type forces, Kian?  Did anyone else find the Crow(?) cameo in Book 2 slightly creepy and put in mind a certain "Is that you funny bird?" moment? Or maybe the Vagabond is the third (Thief of Dreams an interloper on the balance of the trio) and the roles are a little different (i.e. Dreamer/creator, Vagabond/maintaining the fire, Storyteller/bringing stories to a close...)? 

 

I think that's it out of me...


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#2 Pawlo_86

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 18:54

Great reading. I think that White Lady is White Dragon. She is The Ghost from Interlude. Prophet can be avatar of Undreaming. Lady Alvane can be another icarnation of April Ryan and my super theory TLJ-releated is that April was a reicarnation of The First Guardian.



#3 tummy ooh aah

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 19:31

I agree, great post! I especially like the spec that Zoë is Lux's "avatar". It would make the moment of their meeting all the stranger. However I'm not sure if I actually agree with your avatar theory. Personally I don't like the idea that all of these characters can be reduced to one "true" person - for me it diminishes each character and with it the diversity of the universe. It seems like a similar sort of reductive perspective as the Queenie-Kin theories. I'd rather imagine this world is more expansive than one in which every mysterious authoritative figure is Kin and every shifter-esque spunky female figure is April.

For an example of why I have a problem with this, let's look at Lux and Zoë. Lux is an apparently genderless god figure - how do you reconcile that with Zoë, "of the humans", a woman with a life and history shaped by the people and world around her? She becomes reduced to the first Dreamer - that becomes her "true" identity - the one who is dreaming the Dream, not living the Dream (heh). Her actions in the world would seem trivial in the face of learning that she is outside it altogether, controlling the fate of the universe from a higher perspective. Events that we are a part of suddenly mean a lot less in the grand scheme of things. Is she still Zoë in this case? I don't know, for me, not really. And that's where I have the difficulty.

I'm not sure why this idea offends me so much but I kind of feel the integrity of each character is compromised and they are not allowed to be their own selves, instead bring reduced to the self of another. Rights to individuality for all fictional characters!

Anyway hope that makes sense, it's not me trying to prove your theory wrong (because it is very interesting) it's just trying to articulate why I wouldn't like to see this actually happen in the story.
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#4 despaiens

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 05:07

To clarify on your point tummy ooh aah, in the quoted stories (Rama and Krishna, and I'm no expert), they each led their own wild and adventurous lives.  They each were born, worked to fulfill some purpose on earth, and eventually died.  They are each worshiped both as manifestations of the supreme Vishnu and for their own personal qualities and virtues.  I'm with you in not wanting to see the characters reduced to stand ins for bigger players.

 

It's not so much Zoe would no longer be "Zoe of the humans," her own character, and reduced simply to the god in action; but it is one possible explanation for the uniqueness of her destiny and abilities, which we are led to believe is extreme.  This idea was suggested to me as a furtherance of the Vishnu/Lux similarity but there are of course many other possibilities (Faith certainly came into being through no such deistic intentions, and they are closely related).  Incidentally, I appreciate a great deal how the first Dreamer is not presented as a powerful god but as a fragile, beautiful sleeper.

 

Taking this avatar idea a step further into the April/Saga/Alvane question is certainly a stretch of probability, but the spectrum of existence it provided was appealing.  The Longest Journey series has always thrived on this sort of meta story self awareness.

 

Though the issue of incarnation is certainly being put out there by Ragnar and Dag with April's death and apparent rebirth.  Barring a plucky trip through the House of All Worlds back to the Swamp City to rescue the April we knew or some other time travel paradox reversals, any furtherance of her story arc will be filtered through "new eyes" as it were.  Maybe Anna will cut and dye her hair and drop her accent but she will never quite be the girl who went to VAVA, even if she has her memories, and that could be interesting dramatic material to explore... which brings to mind The Longest Journey Home.  The dual journeys of April losing herself in despair towards Dreamfall and Saga going from similar despair in her Hannah phase towards something else, hopefully more positive...?


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#5 Pawlo_86

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 07:36

Back  to Dreamfall. It is very possible that April was supposed to be killed off in Swamp City and White Dragon knew it so she send Faith with a misison to Zoe to start her "Find April Ryan. Save Her" task. Task was completed - April is reborn.



#6 despaiens

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 05:04

You're absolutely right, Pawlo, that it certainly seems that April being killed in the Swamp City was part of the plan and the White Dragon did send Zoe there.  I can't figure out what Zoe had to do with that event at all though except witness it... which brings to mind what Cortez said to April way back about just her presence affecting events.  Regardless though, the last words of the White Dragon to Zoe before she went to the Swamp City heavily imply that she's the White Lady... but something about that always seemed off to me, I don't know...

 

The reborn White still seemed to be a bit naive for big cross-dimensional plots and she was attacked before Faith saw the White Lady for the last time... but the Interlude again seems to suggest her as the culprit.







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