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Ilusion of choice. The ending of Book Two.

Book two Nela explosion

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#41 ElDoRado1239

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 19:36

Good news everyone! I have found out what's inside The Box.

 

farnsworth-parabox_480_poster.jpg


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So, wake up, Miss Castillo. Wake up and... *smell the ashes*...


#42 msodkiewicz

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 19:39

Well, I was running away from the blast and then the cutscene made me chase Nela. Wow, that's not what I expected.  ;)


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#43 urzagc13

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 19:41

Well, I was running away from the blast and then the cutscene made me chase Nela. Wow, that's not what I expected.  ;)

 

The game obviously wants to tell you that you're a horrible person!  ;)

(huuuuuuugely just joking here!!!!!!!)


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#44 Yetili

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 20:28

I saw a few people playing the last explosion part of book two.

 

Many reactions were like "Ok, they fucked up this part. I ran in the other direction. This is ​ridiculous."

 

Book 2 needs an alternative cutscene for players who run in the other direction. Maybe the same scene, but without zoe running after Nela.

 

As much as I like Book 2... But this part looks for players wo ran in the other direction amateurish.


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#45 Indrid Cold

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 21:40

I think the "simplest" (conceptually) way for this to be resolved would be that a different cut-scene is triggered immediately if Zoë runs away (so she can't get far) in which she looks behind just in time to see the explosion and is still thrown off. The rest could be the same, with the damaged face because she looked behind.


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#46 alex

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 01:51

But is the truth, as Hitchcock observed, in the box?  No, there isn't room.  The ambiguity has put on weight.

 

 

Or the box could be both empty and not empty at the same time. ;)

 

 

http://en.wikipedia....hrödinger's_cat

 

One description of the theory:

 

"The EPR article highlighted the strange nature of quantum superpositions, in which a quantum system such as an atom or photon can exist as a combination of multiple states corresponding to different possible outcomes. The prevailing theory, called the Copenhagen interpretation, said that a quantum system remained in this superposition until it interacted with, or was observed by, the external world, at which time the superposition collapses into one or another of the possible definite states."

 

=>

 

In other words, if there is a system with two possible outcomes, they can exist as an combination of multiple states corresponding to the possible outcomes. The system remains in this position until it interact with, or is observed by the external world, at wich time the state of things collapses into eithter one of these states.

 

=>

 

If there is two possibilities, (the box is empty or not empty, )they are both true at the same time. The truth remains this until someone interacts with, or observes, the inside of the box, at witch time the truth becomes either one of these states.

 

 

 

 

I'm not an expert though :D This theory is mostly used in fysics and filosophy, as far as I know... And Einstein was one of the inventors of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

(This site is not working for me.. When I click "Link" everything just freezes and I cant even close the popup that appear or click any of the options, including cancel or ok or the close symbol, I just have to refresh and start everything again. When I try to paste the link url or anything else here nothing happens.. Anything wont work.  :( Had to refresh the site a lot of times already.)



#47 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 02:40

Hmm... That's really weird, alex. :( Not sure what's going on there. What browser are you using? 


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#48 alex

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 03:02

I'm using Explorer, should probably try to get myself to download firefox  sometime soon. Maybe tommorrow I'll do it.. :D

 

Maybe there is a lot of traffic here right now when people are ready with their episode? Or my computer is just tired of playing so much DFC..? Don't know, but if its my computer I'm really worried because i payed a lot for this and its only a half year old (and has just been repaired), so I expect my computer to be working...

 

Even when writing this it freeze a couple of times and would not let me write.. Shit..

 

But yeah, this happend only on this site and has not happened before.



#49 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 03:04

This forum software and IE do not really play nicely together. I think it's better/worse depending on the version of IE you're running. So switching to a different browser may well be what you need to do. 

 

I'd assume that's the issue over anything else, at least. If you try a different browser and it's still misbehaving, then maybe not. 


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#50 alex

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 03:26

This forum software and IE do not really play nicely together. I think it's better/worse depending on the version of IE you're running. So switching to a different browser may well be what you need to do. 

 

I'd assume that's the issue over anything else, at least. If you try a different browser and it's still misbehaving, then maybe not. 

 

Thank you for the help and info (and getting me to finally install firefox ;))!  Using another browser helped and the site works again for me. :)


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#51 Andry

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 05:02

I've been so conditioned by stealth games that I ended up waiting a good 5 minutes for Nela to finish her cigarette and continue on to her actual destination, thinking that a known anti-establishment Marxist stopping at the EYE headquarters with all those battle-suits around would be tantamount to suicide (oopsies!).

 

I eventually had to just walk over to her, and then I ran away. I tried to get into the dream machine building.

 

Not sure how the game would track that, though.


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#52 grayjo

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 06:05

+1 to a second cut scene playing if you ran away. I didn't think to do so but i assumed there would be.

 

Maybe she gets a rifle butt in the face from an EYE operative or knocked out by someone you pissed off by your choices... The Collective would have been pretty pissed at me...



#53 ct2651

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 07:07

Yeah, maybe just the total end with the running was average, but the rest of this experience... OH man...

 

I'm borderline afraid to continue...

This is way more intense that I have come to expect from a normal video game...

 

The london's guys are really enigmatic...

 

but ok, I'm a bit speechless.



#54 Beyond Yonder

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 09:35

I do agree a cutscene for those who ran away would be better. I tried not to follow Nela and you have to follow her otherwise the chapter doesn't finish. You don't have any other choice but to activate Nela's suicide.



#55 ElDoRado1239

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 09:48

I do agree a cutscene for those who ran away would be better. I tried not to follow Nela and you have to follow her otherwise the chapter doesn't finish. You don't have any other choice but to activate Nela's suicide.

That is not the problem. You have to complete the "canon" goals all the time. But I really think Zoe should be running on her own, letting the player decide just if Zoe will yell at her or not. Or maybe make it just a non-interactive cutscene, that would be still ok by me.
The only problem is with giving players the freedom and having just one result at the same time. So either less freedom, or more results. That's all.

And it really feels like nitpicking anyway, it's not such a big deal. When a game is this good, minor flaws are ought to be overlooked. :)


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So, wake up, Miss Castillo. Wake up and... *smell the ashes*...


#56 Happy Tree

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 22:15

I didn't mind the "fake interaction" at all. In fact I thought it worked quite well. It's not so much the "illusion of choice" for me, it's the "illusion of hope" - which, I will argue, is no illusion at all.

 

Hope is a funny thing. It is the most resilient force in the universe. It can exist where no other life exists. Hope is a vessel making a space for love to flow into. It's one of the bases of all things - the other two being faith and love. It's a fundamental urge that pre-shapes desire. It's a setting of the sails, a directing of the tiller. The winds may blow or not, the universe may accommodate what you hope for, or not; but the initial spark that gets it all going is hope.

 

They say where there is life there's hope. I would say it's more fundamental than that: where there is hope there's life. Even when you know it's futile, hope makes you act, makes you direct your energies towards the goal you hold most dear. Hope is infinite potential.

 

Taking control of Zoe, pressing the buttons on your controller or mouse, this is the purest expression of hope. You know the die is cast, you know what's going to happen in a couple of seconds. And yet you still grasp, you still move, you still act. Because you have hope that somewhere, somehow, on some level, in some crazy world, this movement of your will is going to make a difference. The universe will be different, will be better, because you were a beating heart that directed your desire towards love when you believed all was lost.

 

That's what I felt when I was moving Zoe in slo-mo. I was hoping with no expectation of it ever being rewarded. The expression of hope itself was the reward.


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#57 Idinyphe

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 22:25

Illusion of choice.

 

@ Tamahome

 

Well of course you are right. In a computer game of our days there is only an illusion of choice. Nobody is able to construct a "real" choice like in the real world. Even the best studios with loads of money can only make the "Illusion of choice".

 

It is like a magician. You know it is not real magic. You know it is an illusion.

 

The trick is: how good is the magician doing his magic. I do not have the feeling during playing that I can see the threads of the puppet (as we say "when you start to see the threads of the puppet the childhood is over...")

 

For me the magic is still working. (And yes, I did run away in the other direction... like a coward only saving his shabby live)

 

I think it is one of the greates magic of illusion of choice you can see 2015. There will be better ones in the future. But for the past? I don't know if there are better ones, I doubt that.


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Unfortunately that's the story of revenge. It's messy. Never really works out the way you want it to.


#58 ct2651

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 22:34

Illusion of choice.

 

@ Tamahome

 

Well of course you are right. In a computer game of our days there is only an illusion of choice. Nobody is able to construct a "real" choice like in the real world. Even the best studios with loads of money can only make the "Illusion of choice".

 

It is like a magician. You know it is not real magic. You know it is an illusion.

 

The trick is: how good is the magician doing his magic. I do not have the feeling during playing that I can see the threads of the puppet (as we say "when you start to see the threads of the puppet the childhood is over...")

 

For me the magic is still working. (And yes, I did run away in the other direction... like a coward only saving his shabby live)

 

I think it is one of the greates magic of illusion of choice you can see 2015. There will be better ones in the future. But for the past? I don't know if there are better ones, I doubt that.

 

Well, Ragnar still has a specifiy story to tell, so we can't expect the game change completely with ours choices...

 

(The last time someone has done that, changing the very basic of the story with story choices, it was Alpha protocol and some people were saying that even the story was bad while the story was done by their own hand... (I know about the bugs, the fact is that some even talk bad about the story.))



#59 Mr Moo

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 22:46

Thank you for the help and info (and getting me to finally install firefox ;))!  Using another browser helped and the site works again for me. :)

 

A convert! :wub:

 

Let's bring out the hooded cape. :D



#60 Idinyphe

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 22:48

Well, Ragnar still has a specifiy story to tell, so we can't expect the game change completely with ours choices...

 

(The last time someone has done that, changing the very basic of the story with story choices, it was Alpha protocol and some people were saying that even the story was bad while the story was done by their own hand... (I know about the bugs, the fact is that some even talk bad about the story.))

 

I have to say I did not play Alpha protocol (Isen't that a shooter? Not my thing to be honest...)

 

I tried to play "mass effect" but the storyline was too boring the shooter elements a pain so I stopped at the first part.


Unfortunately that's the story of revenge. It's messy. Never really works out the way you want it to.






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