124 replies to this topic

[DollyDagger]

They're definitely *not* going to retcon all of Books 1&2. However, the events after the (veery weirdly edited) "encounter" of Zoe with the Dreamachine could be suspect to a degree. I still don't think they're going to tell us that they didn't happen, but definitely something strange is going on there, the scene transitions are very bizarre, very dreamlike.

 

^ This. I'm not sure what blowing up a handful of guards at the entrance to the Metro would actually accomplish, unless it was part of some larger plot? Or not actually real but a dreaming vision of what MIGHT happen, or a symbolic message to Zoe's dreaming mind, or.. or..

I'm keeping an open mind at this point about what did or did not actually happen. I think until I get more information I'll just have to place myself in the hands of the developers and let them wring all of the feels out of me until they're done.

[urzagc13]

Also, the box that Nela handed over to Zoe gave me some serious David Lynch/Mulholland Drive vibes, which reinforces the "dream effect". on the other hand, I don't know if it's good or not because I'm no fan of Lynch (though I haven't seen much of his work, I'll admit) and I didn't like Mulhollland Drive at all, lol.

[Pawlo_86]

I'm not sure if Zoe used Dreamer at all. She was close to did this but who knows...

[Idinyphe]

Haha, nice one, Idinyphe! Too bad that it seems that RTG didn't really code a "choice" here (to preserve the dramatic moment I guess). It would be fun if you could actually hide from the explosion but right afterwards you're shot by a frantic guard or sometching, so you still end up unconscious.
Personally I was totally "sucked" in the scene as intended: I run straight TOWARDS Nela as fast as I could and even clicked on her several times (which I think results in shouting her name in vain).

 

Well maybe I am a coward through and through and everything that is important for me is my own shabby life... 

 

Not a nice finding about yourself if you ask me.

[urzagc13]

I'm not sure if Zoe used Dreamer at all. She was close to did this but who knows...

That "uncertainty" is definitely intented by Ragnar. It reminds of one more classic movie were the question of "is this all a dream or real?" is asked (but never in fact answered) : Total Recall (the old one, with Arnold!). There (in the "it's real" theory) the protagonist is just about to have fake memories (an amazing "vacation") implanted in his head when the process is aborted and a very ridiculous/over-the-top (but very entertaining!) series of events takes place, or (in the "dream" theory) all the events after the beginning of that process (including the illusion that the process was aborted) are part of those fake "vacation" memories. Aka, in the dream he forgot that he connected to the "dream machine" in the first place.

[Pawlo_86]

That "uncertainty" is definitely intented by Ragnar. It reminds of one more classic movie were the question of "is this all a dream or real?" is asked (but never in fact answered) : Total Recall (the old one, with Arnold!). There (in the "it's real" theory) the protagonist is just about to have fake memories fantastic "vacation" implanted in his head when the process is aborted and a very ridiculous/over-the-top (but very enetretaining!) series of events takes place, or (in the "dream" theory) all the events after the beginning of that process (including the illusion that the process was aborted) are part of those fake "vacation" memories. Aka, in the dream he forgot that he connected to the "dream machine" in the first place.

 

I hate "it was just a dream" revelations. Hope that it won't happen in Chapters.

[Vainamoinen]

That "uncertainty" is definitely intented by Ragnar. It reminds of one more classic movie were the question of "is this all a dream or real?" is asked (but never in fact answered) : Total Recall (the old one, with Arnold!).

 

Oh, the question was answered in Total Recall, IIRC. They were trying to tell Arnie he's dreaming, but he wasn't.

[Ghost]

"It's all a dream" would surely be a gutsy choice.There surely are hints to that effect though. Like that it's always raining outside when you're inside but never when you step outside, which Zoe comments on if you click on the window in her apartment.

 

What I'm thinking is that it's mostly real but there is some dream shenanigans going on. After all Zoe can go to real places while dreaming.

[urzagc13]

SPOILER Warning below for an old movie, Total Recall (not the recent remake)

Oh, the question was answered in Total Recall, IIRC. They were trying to tell Arnie he's dreaming, but he wasn't.

"Reality" is probably more likely than "Dream", but no definite answer was given in that movie and there are -subtle- clues favoring the dream scenario, including: the description/"market-pitch" of the vacation dream they gave (and showed) him before they started the process (which war very prophetic of the actual story, including the ridiculous parts like aliens as well as a brief "flash" of the love interest's face), what the "doctor" says that will happen if Arnie doesn't wake up when trying to convince him he's sleeping (went something like: "the walls of your reality will come crumbling down, at one moment you'll be siding with the rebels and the next you'll be Cohagen's bossom buddy", which again was prophetic: the moment he shot the doctor/rejected reality the walls of the room crumbled by invading security forces and later he found out he used to be Cohagen's buddy), how progressively ridiculous everything was becoming (more mutants, more crazy plot twists, aliens and instant terraformings) and even the very final "fade to blinding white" (lobotomy? Just waking up?) at the end after the cinematic triumphant kiss with the love interest, as if the ending had a movie director(in-universe) controlling it.

[Uniteatteri]

In Dreamfall when Zoë was in Marcuria she was physically there - but not quite fully, as the White Dragon implied. Maybe now Zoë is capable of doing the exact same thing also in Stark? The events in Europolis probably are real (like the events in Marcuria), but Zoë is dreaming herself there. That's what a "Dreamer" (not meaning the Dreamachine) means in the series - the ability to dream yourself physically to another world.

[urzagc13]

I don't know if that bit of dialogue is only in one choice path (I doubt it), but in my playthrough Queenie told Zoe something similar to what the White had said to Zoe, that she's not entirely there, which reinforces the dream projection theory.

 

EDIT: I don't know if the quote is accurate (I copied it from another person's post in another forum) but according to that person Queenie said: “Part of you is lost in dreaming. And part of you… part of you is a dream. You’re not all here. That worries me.”

[Ravenwoods]

I can see that for many people in Europolis, but Nela didn't seem to me to be a very despairing character. Cynical, yes, but there was always a tough kind of positivity behind her from my reading. I think if she really did just feel like it was too much there must have been something else we don't know about yet that was the final straw.

That's it. While I always saw Nela as a social activist etc. Never though she would do suicide bombing. There must be a different motivation. It feels uncharacteristic. But we don't know her very well either.

[Ravenwoods]

In Dreamfall when Zoë was in Marcuria she was physically there - but not quite fully, as the White Dragon implied. Maybe now Zoë is capable of doing the exact same thing also in Stark? The events in Europolis probably are real (like the events in Marcuria), but Zoë is dreaming herself there. That's what a "Dreamer" (not meaning the Dreamachine) means in the series - the ability to dream yourself physically to another world.

What Queenie was saying, almost very clearly, felt that way. Maybe she is really just projecting herself there. I think she is in the Storytime all the time. Her being, her essence is in the Dreams, not in reality. She just projects into our reality. Just as Lux, the first dreamer, dreams our reality. 

[Pawlo_86]

I don't know if that bit of dialogue is only in one choice path (I doubt it), but Queenie told Zoe something similar to want the White had said to Zoe, that she's not entirely there, which reinforces the dream projection theory.

 

Yep. So all events happend but Zoe isn't really in Propast. She dreaming herself there.

[Ravenwoods]

^ This. I'm not sure what blowing up a handful of guards at the entrance to the Metro would actually accomplish, unless it was part of some larger plot? Or not actually real but a dreaming vision of what MIGHT happen, or a symbolic message to Zoe's dreaming mind, or.. or..

I'm keeping an open mind at this point about what did or did not actually happen. I think until I get more information I'll just have to place myself in the hands of the developers and let them wring all of the feels out of me until they're done.

That's another issue. What would this accomplish?! Maybe just to initiate some real rebellion?! 

[Clairobscur]

Apparently, Nela got her bomb (or at least the detonator) from Hanna. There is a box full of them in Hanna's nest near the photo.

[virumor]

Safe to say "the job" Hanna was doing was for the marxist party? Maybe that marxist head honcho lady will become an ally in the future.

[khh]

I got the impression that Nela was being squeezed by someone. I think someone threatened her. There are probably things she cares more about than her own life. 

[urzagc13]

Good point, khh. Though we never learned more about her except that she loved her cart (and job) and was a passionate marxist (but had reservations with extreme actions, ironically), so we can't speculate on what she cared for and how one could have that kind of leverage on her.

[Vainamoinen]

I just repeat "Nela! Nela! Nela!" all over again.

 

So did I, but that took me out at the same time. They should have recorded more than one "Nela" scream.