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Kickstarter update #72 (Christmas Card)

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#41 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 00:22

I think RTG might be a liiiittle less gun-shy about that sort of thing if the music contest hadn't blown up so spectacularly. I don't blame them for not wanting to anywhere near another potentially controversial issue in that same arena anytime soon. 

 

:/


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#42 ct2651

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 00:23

Thanks Ragnar.

 

I hear you about the guilt of 'employing' unpaid 'staff'. My 'suggestion' is to consider the kinds of organisations that employ volunteer labor on a regular basis, and have for decades. Hospitals use volunteers every day, some of them for pretty vital functions. Food shelters depend on volunteer labor. Without it they would fail to accomplish their missions - people would actually die. And most special events wouldn't function without volunteers. The Olympics is perhaps the greatest example of these.

 

Compared to all of these, I don't think RTG's issues are so insurmountable. As you said, you have trustworthy, dedicated, intelligent people available. My suggestion is to use them. Never forget, it's their option whether to volunteer. Yes, you are taking advantage of them. That is, in fact, the point. The cautionary factor to note is to not take undue advantage of them. And remember, you're not taking undue advantage of someone if they don't feel you are.

 

And the fact Ragnar that you consider to talk and ask about it makes you even more innocent.

It means you do care for them a lot and somewhat, I'm sure these people know it.


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#43 Tina

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 00:32

Stop pointing at Rakel. Might be that Rakel is the only one who really knows how to use all the monkey name gizmos, and she was deep in the holidays already. It was probably the janitor and/or other resident technophobe who sent out the update.

 

Still didn't receive a thing, all spam folders checked... this one's not coming.

 

Merry Christmas anyway! ;)

Just wanted to point out that I never intended to "point at Rakel", at least not in a negative way.

 

Ragnar has now explained how their information flow works. And that confirmed all of my theories about how it worked. But since I didn't know before he wrote it, I couldn't just say how I thought it worked.

 

But yeah, the only reason why I mentioned Rakel here, was to explain the "Ragnar posts all the information, Rakel deals with PayPal backers, Rakel is on holidays (as she should be), paypal backers gets the short straw because Ragnar can't easily send those e-mails to the paypal backers" that I thought was the likely culprit, and which has now been confirmed by Ragnar. That was not meant to point fingers, because I thought people would read it and be forgiving when they imagined for themselves how it worked. And that I didn't really think it was a "mistake or oversight" but more of a "focus on the easiest and most feasible information channels" thing.

 

So again, not blaming Rakel at all! If anyone thought that's what I was doing.

 

 

Edit: And about the social media thing; I do think it's an advantage that Ragnar does it all himself. The facebook&twitter things are easily posted, as he said, without having to double check and ask people (which would be Ragnar, most likely). We moderators (and other forum users) post things here on the forum, and then there aren't really that many more channels that needs to be posted to. It gets around pretty fast, and I feel it is working quite well.

 

Maybe a dedicated person could put out more of the "small social fun things" kind of updates. But for that to work, the person would have to be around RTG at a regular basis. At the release party, and some other gatherings, I've put myself in the position of being that "social media person" by posting pictures etc (helped by Silje++), and I feel that worked quite well. But in those situations, I would probably be more stressed out if those pictures were directly posted on RTG's twitter account and not mine. So I'd be all "hey Ragnar, look at this picture, should I post it? what should I say? can you click send for me?" probably :D

 

Anyway, I'm always happy to help when I can!


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Tina: RTG fangirl and forum moderator.

#44 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 00:37

So again, not blaming Rakel at all! If anyone thought that's what I was doing.

 

I think if anything, we were pointing the finger at Ragnar. :P Because the problem is when he does stuff and doesn't tell Rakel / Rakel isn't around. Which isn't her fault. 


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#45 Ikon

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 01:50

I think RTG might be a liiiittle less gun-shy about that sort of thing if the music contest hadn't blown up so spectacularly. I don't blame them for not wanting to anywhere near another potentially controversial issue in that same arena anytime soon. 

 

:/

 

Perhaps this is what Ragnar was referring to. I hadn't even considered it because I look at the 2 things as being very, very different. I don't equate a 'contest' to contribute music to the game as being anything like having someone look after updating backers by email.


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#46 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 02:01

While they're different, the core issue still comes down to the same issue: someone doing some sort of work and not getting compensated with their time and effort in money. In the music contest, it didn't seem to matter that it was a contest for fans that they requested. It may not matter in this case, either, that it is people volunteering their time and effort to help. 

 

I can see the argument for why they're very different, but at the same time... if it were me and my business, I'd still be really wary. 


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#47 Vainamoinen

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 13:04

I don't think that PR can be much improved at the time. Somehow backer contact info seems to be spread to two databases instead of one. That should be fixed – particularly now that no new backers can enter the database anymore. And scene.

As to the entire rest: PR costs money, and I very much agree that efforts should not be made constantly (which will decrease the press' readiness to pick up the news) but rather periodically (leading up to every episode release).

Moderators are always some kind of ambassador. Who work best to spread the word if they are treated like, well, just another fan by the company. Silje is e.g. already doing a great job at that without her name in red.

Most of the PR hickups that occurred (no Wii U version, PS4 'exclusivity', music contest) were absolutely no fault of RTG. I think that more clamor could have been done leading up to Reborn's release, but apart from this, PR things are quite fine. RTG is nowhere near big enough for a separate community manager.

The major problem lies not in PR but in individual backer service. Backerkit and Humble make a mess out of things. If backers wish to change their data, it's immensely complicated and they usually will not achieve what they're trying to do.

Here's hoping that TLJH will improve on all that, possibly even via forum account. For the moment, the damage is done I guess. What was immensely important in September and early October is now just a nuisance for some people. Better luck next time. :)
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Hey Ubisoft, you can keep your "seamless vast online GTA in space" to yourselves. Signed, one of the greatest Beyond Good & Evil fans alive.


#48 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 16:12

^More or less agreed. I just don't want PayPal backers to feel left out/slighted/less important than anyone else. Which is the main reason I wanted to try and figure out what was up.
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#49 Ragnar

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 21:19

I thought that Book Two was almost completed during release of Book One but it seems that Book One was some kind of trigger for Book Two. It seems that:

 

- feedback from Book One (mostly positive but many people said that Book 1 is too short),

- sales of Season Pass,

- technical issues after Book One,

 

lead RTG to made some major changes to Book Two.And this requaried more time to develop it. I'm still hoping that Book Two will release before 21st of January 2015.

 

No, of course this isn't the case.

 

The technical issues have had very little effect on the schedule for Book Two — our programmers were 'finished' by October 21st, and they had no big tasks for Book Two. They've been working diligently improving performance and memory usage, and on fixing any and all bugs that have popped up, but this has had no detrimental effect on future release dates.

 

The feedback has, of course, been important to us, but we've made no changes to the story or content of Book Two based on the feedback from Book One. We have a story we're telling, and we're telling that story. Besides, Book Two was too far along to make any major alterations — even if we'd wanted to. And we didn't. Book Two will be awesome!

 

Finally, our sales numbers have certainly not affected the schedule. We've added one more team member since the release of Book One, which has helped improve the turnaround (and quality) on the art side — something we couldn't have done if the sales were below expectations — but it hasn't really affected our milestones, since they depend on a mix of environment art, character art, design, scripting and animations.

 

Yes, Book Two was far along by the time we released Book One, but it does take time to take something from 70-80% complete to 100% complete, especially when that something is many hours in length and contains multiple permutations of a storyline along with thousands of lines of dialogue. It's a pretty fucking massive game we're making, and that means some books will take longer than others.

 

We don't foresee the wait for Book Three being as long — but then again our focus right now is on the second one, so we won't know for sure until that one's done.


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#50 ct2651

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 23:00

No, of course this isn't the case.

 

The technical issues have had very little effect on the schedule for Book Two — our programmers were 'finished' by October 21st, and they had no big tasks for Book Two. They've been working diligently improving performance and memory usage, and on fixing any and all bugs that have popped up, but this has had no detrimental effect on future release dates.

 

The feedback has, of course, been important to us, but we've made no changes to the story or content of Book Two based on the feedback from Book One. We have a story we're telling, and we're telling that story. Besides, Book Two was too far along to make any major alterations — even if we'd wanted to. And we didn't. Book Two will be awesome!

 

Finally, our sales numbers have certainly not affected the schedule. We've added one more team member since the release of Book One, which has helped improve the turnaround (and quality) on the art side — something we couldn't have done if the sales were below expectations — but it hasn't really affected our milestones, since they depend on a mix of environment art, character art, design, scripting and animations.

 

Yes, Book Two was far along by the time we released Book One, but it does take time to take something from 70-80% complete to 100% complete, especially when that something is many hours in length and contains multiple permutations of a storyline along with thousands of lines of dialogue. It's a pretty fucking massive game we're making, and that means some books will take longer than others.

 

We don't foresee the wait for Book Three being as long — but then again our focus right now is on the second one, so we won't know for sure until that one's done.

 

I just like the ambition of this project, and I am glad to have pledge to such a huge project. (Continue your great effort!)


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#51 Crowboy

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 23:46

The size of the project actually worries me.

RTG were probably used to being part of a company (Funcom) that could produce a huge game such as TLJ.

Now they see that with (relatively) little resources a small team it's a huge effort and will probably not go for such a huge endeavor anytime soon.

Which in my book means either:

1. TLJH is going to be done in many years when RTG becomes bigger

2. TLJH is going to be a very short game (relatively to TLJ of course)

 

Then again

Spoiler
not sure that I care much anymore...



#52 mrKnask

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 23:51

No, of course this isn't the case.

 

<Snip for space>

 Glad to hear that you could 1 up the team :)

 

I'm a computer neanderthal or something like that, but I undertand and appreciate all the hard work! I wouldn't worry too much about release date etc, better to make it as bug free on day one as possible, but I guess you have some good data from Book one so that will help I guess :) (Even thought sadly some had problems running it, it was far from AC Unity ;) )

 

OK, before I start rambling I just wanted to say we (well, I, but I'm certain I'm not alone) belive in you and the trust remain strong! I think a lot of the worries comes from ignorance/ not knowing the facts about this project.

 

Keep up the good work :)

 


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Affirmative, I will stop doing this thing that I love and makes me feel happy and follow you to our next stop
on our depressing journey, what is your command human? How will I be tested now....?

 


#53 mrKnask

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 23:57

The size of the project actually worries me.

RTG were probably used to being part of a company (Funcom) that could produce a huge game such as TLJ.

Now they see that with (relatively) little resources a small team it's a huge effort and will probably not go for such a huge endeavor anytime soon.

Which in my book means either:

1. TLJH is going to be done in many years when RTG becomes bigger

2. TLJH is going to be a very short game (relatively to TLJ of course)

 

Then again

Spoiler
not sure that I care much anymore...

While this may hold some truth (not the spoiler thing, The big idea for this whole saga was made many years ago as I understand) they have said that TLJH will be closer too TLJ, re 2,5D etc, which I guess is at least a little bit easier to make, at least from a technical/programming perspective.


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Affirmative, I will stop doing this thing that I love and makes me feel happy and follow you to our next stop
on our depressing journey, what is your command human? How will I be tested now....?

 


#54 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 28 December 2014 - 00:01

The size of the project actually worries me.

RTG were probably used to being part of a company (Funcom) that could produce a huge game such as TLJ.

Now they see that with (relatively) little resources a small team it's a huge effort and will probably not go for such a huge endeavor anytime soon.

Which in my book means either:

1. TLJH is going to be done in many years when RTG becomes bigger

2. TLJH is going to be a very short game (relatively to TLJ of course)

 

Then again

Spoiler
not sure that I care much anymore...

 

I can see why you're concerned, but I wouldn't worry too much just yet. 

 

RTG has been very open and honest about what's going on with this project. Ragnar's responses in these news threads, elsewhere on the forum, and particularly in the Message from Ragnar thread have been both refreshingly honest and also reassuring. Though YMMV. 

 

We know the other project that they're working on right now is Draugen. 

 

We've got some pretty good indications that when/if TLJH happens, it will a.) be a bit easier to make in terms of budget and other things, due to the traditional 2D style and b.) it sounds like it likely will still be episodic, so...love it or hate it, that helps with production time and costs in terms of keeping money flowing in and getting bits of the game out to the public. 

 

We don't know for sure when TLJH will happen, but seeing as it sounds like RTG doesn't have plans to expand hugely, I don't really see that being a factor.

 

Ragnar's already talked about this a bit elsewhere (some of which is compiled in the FAQ here.)

 

I don't expect them to launch into TLJH right after DFC, but I hope it still happens eventually. And as far as your spoilered bit, I still think there's a lot more going on with that than is immediately obvious. *shrug* But again, that's me. 

 

Time will tell. 


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#55 Crowboy

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Posted 28 December 2014 - 01:27

YMMV.

I beg your pardon?

 

We've got some pretty good indications that when/if TLJH happens, it will a.) be a bit easier to make in terms of budget and other things, due to the traditional 2D style and b.) it soundslike it likely will still be episodic, so...love it or hate it, that helps with production time and costs in terms of keeping money flowing in and getting bits of the game out to the public.

First of all, I'm fine with episodic format, as long as the story is being told till the end. I know that the art will be 2D but still. There's much of it in a long game, and it theoretically should accommodate for several years, including the time of DFC. Think of all the puzzles, stories, divergences, and yes, also art, required for such a project. So less trouble from unity, that's cool, but how much easier will it make the production? 10%? 20%? surely not 50%+
 

but I hope it still happens eventually.

You're not alone in that feeling.

 

And as far as your spoilered bit, I still think there's a lot more going on with that than is immediately obvious. *shrug* But again, that's me.
 
Time will tell.

I want to believe you're right. I really do. I'm still in denial myself. But if there's one thing I can be certain of, is that

Spoiler



#56 Lee-m

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Posted 28 December 2014 - 01:28

The size of the project actually worries me.

..I think they know what they are doing. Why any one would be 'worried' its beyond me.

Also TLJH will be a far smaller project as a 2D point and click, as in it will likely require less man power.


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#57 Crowboy

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Posted 28 December 2014 - 01:32

You've been ninja'd

Why any one would be 'worried' its beyond me.

I guess if it's beyond your understanding, there's no point in explaining then?



#58 Lee-m

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Posted 28 December 2014 - 01:37

I guess if it's beyond your understanding, there's no point in explaining then?

I guess not. I'll acquiesce to your superior reasoning skills.


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#59 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 28 December 2014 - 01:41

I trust Ragnar and I trust RTG, so I'm not that worried. And I'm also excited to see what else the studio does.

YMMV= your mileage may vary.

As far as why I'm so confident about the last bit... I've been following along very carefully so I'm pretty confident that there's something more going on.

I can outline my feelings and observations in more detail when I'm not on mobile. ;) (Which is also why I'm not quoting and being fancy like that.)
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#60 Crowboy

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Posted 28 December 2014 - 02:04

Thumbs up for not being fancy :P


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