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Kickstarter update #72 (Christmas Card)

kickstarter update christmas card

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#21 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 25 December 2014 - 00:28

I understand. I'm just trying to explain why RTG likely hasn't done so. And ultimately it is their call. 


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#22 khh

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Posted 25 December 2014 - 00:32

From a technical standpoint it is easy, absolutely. But legally, morally and image wise it may be more trouble than its worth.
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#23 Ikon

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Posted 25 December 2014 - 00:45

I understand. I'm just trying to explain why RTG likely hasn't done so. And ultimately it is their call. 

 

As you say, it's their call.


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#24 Antiheldin

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Posted 25 December 2014 - 12:49

Ugh. Damn. :(

 

I'm guessing it may have been either an oversight or a glitch that wasn't noticed with the holidays, but that's not good. :/ ...I think I'll reply to the tweet they posted about it and mention it, if it looks like no one else has. I don't know if they'll see it, but it should still be brought to their attention. 

That must be it then :(

I'm a paypal-backer too, and I didn't get the email either this time ... though I believe I did receive the others, up till now :huh:



#25 Tina

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Posted 25 December 2014 - 16:07

I see what you're saying, but that just seems risky and more trouble than it's worth for RTG, at least right now. Also, from what I've gathered, it doesn't take that long for them to send out the email to the PP backers. Based on what Rakel said in the past, though, it's just something Ragnar forgets to do when he does it. :P And I wouldn't be surprised if he was the one taking the time to push out the updates on Christmas Eve.

Yep, from what I've understood, Ragnar sends out the Kickstarter updates (+ facebook &  twitter), but Rakel is the one sending them out to PayPal backers (I think she's the one in charge of that e-mail system they're using). And we have heard from Ragnar before, that Rakel usually notices a Kickstarter update that Ragnar hasn't told her about, then sends out the mails while being angry at Ragnar for not telling her about it. So I'm not surprised that Rakel hasn't noticed yet, because Christmas.

 

Has there been a case of PayPal backers not getting an update at all? Afaik, they have gotten all the updates, but it's been a few times now where they've had to wait for a while for them. I understand the frustration, but at this point I more or less feel it's something that's just going to happen now and again.. I'm not saying that we shouldn't make them aware though. They absolutely need the reminder :)


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#26 Bruno

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Posted 25 December 2014 - 23:05

Must be that system they're using, what's it called, Mail...... Kimp?...


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#27 Vainamoinen

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Posted 26 December 2014 - 00:05

Stop pointing at Rakel. Might be that Rakel is the only one who really knows how to use all the monkey name gizmos, and she was deep in the holidays already. It was probably the janitor and/or other resident technophobe who sent out the update.

 

Still didn't receive a thing, all spam folders checked... this one's not coming.

 

Merry Christmas anyway! ;)


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#28 ct2651

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Posted 26 December 2014 - 00:14

I always receive the update from kickstarter, so no bug on my side and I'm on gmail... hope that help...



#29 Ragnar

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Posted 26 December 2014 - 13:09

I get what you're saying, Ikon. It does happen. It's a small team, etc. 

 

But RTG should still be made aware of it so that backers who maybe don't follow them across the internet get the email. That's all. It's happened a few times at this point where an update didn't get pushed out to PP backers. Which happens, but it's still frustrating if you're a PP backer and it's still fair feedback for RTG. 

 

And not everyone who backs a game wants to have to track the team all over the internet. And if they send out a message that's meant to go to all backers, it should go to all backers. If PP backers were totally missed, I'm sure it was a total accident. But again... no harm in making RTG aware. 

 

Unfortunately, everyone's off on holiday — me included, although I try to stay updated on what's happening in the community, customer support and on the sales front — so although I was able to publish the Christmas card in all 'channels' (Kickstarter, multiple Twitter feeds and Facebook pages) I was not able to send an email to our PayPal backers. That's always handled by someone else (Rakel) and it wasn't something I could easily do in the time available to me. I was going to post it here as well, but then you guys took care of that — thank you!

 

I'm reasonably certain that most backers who are interested in staying updated on the latest news follow us somewhere on the interwebs, be it social media or on the forum. For those who don't, I apologise: it just wasn't doable.

 

 

I hope everyone's had a lovely Christmas week — or any other relevant secular or non-secular holiday — and we'll be back again soon!


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#30 Ragnar

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Posted 26 December 2014 - 13:21

You know, after the Tex Murphy experience, I had an idea that it might be good to bring a loyal fan into the mix and make them the communications staffer. I'm sure many fans would be happy to do the job pro bono. That way, the developers would only have to create the update and send it to one person who, in turn, would put it through a process that would send out all backers.

 

It would save money by not having a paid staffer spend time doing the notifications, and it would, I believe, be a more reliable way to send out updates/notifications. There is nothing like a loyal fan to make something work.

 

I think this is the single greatest failing of KS campaigns; they don't utilize the talent available to them to the best effect. I've heard the counter-arguments; I don't believe them.

 

It's something we've thought about and talked about, but there are pitfalls.

 

The trust thing, I'm not too worried about: there are lots of people in our community that I would trust with our social media accounts. After all, we have some fantastic moderators on this forum (who work on a voluntary basis, sacrificing their precious free time to help us out and make this community better: we love 'em) who I'm sure could do an amazing job. And I would have no issue trusting any of them.

 

The two biggest issues would be asking people to do actual work for free (ethically dubious at the best of times; could explode in our faces, as we've seen in the past) and staying completely in sync with what a bunch of impulsive people in an office in Oslo are doing on a daily basis. I run most of the social media channels myself. Well…all. I run 'em all. I don't have to check with anyone before posting. If there's something I want to tweet, I do it. If I want to post a screenshot to Facebook, I run the game, take the shot, process and post it. There's no approval. There's no delay.

 

Of course, we could have a second person who then made sure all the information is passed to all channels, always, but that either means a) getting someone to help us out for free, which may be controversial; or B) spending money that might be better spent elsewhere, to produce the game and to make upcoming books better. (Or, y'know, buying toilet paper and coffee.)

 

As a manager, I have a hard time defending the latter when I can do a decent job of it for free, in the evenings. I would LOVE to have more people working on our social media stuff, community management, customer support…but it costs money.

 

As for asking people to volunteer their time… Like I said, can blow up in our faces. I already feel bad about our moderators spending so much time helping out here, but at least that's not unusual; we're not going to be called out for exploiting anyone's good will. In the long run, I hope we can pay someone to manage the community — and mods — but not right now. We'll address that in the months to come.

 

I don't know… I do my best with the time available to me, and right now I don't have any other solution. I think we do a decent job pushing information out, but we can obviously do better.

 

Suggestions?


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#31 Pawlo_86

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Posted 26 December 2014 - 13:32

@Ragnar

 

I hope so that Book Two isn't that far from us as it looks like now...Happy Christmas!



#32 Ragnar

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Posted 26 December 2014 - 14:13

@Ragnar

 

I hope so that Book Two isn't that far from us as it looks like now...Happy Christmas!

 

Well, to put it in perspective, we've only had about a month and a half to work on Book Two after the release of Book One, and our second episode is pretty huge — bigger than expected. We'll have more news at the beginning of January. It'll be worth the wait, I promise!


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#33 mrKnask

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Posted 26 December 2014 - 15:13

Well, to put it in perspective, we've only had about a month and a half to work on Book Two after the release of Book One, and our second episode is pretty huge — bigger than expected. We'll have more news at the beginning of January. It'll be worth the wait, I promise!

Take the time you need :)


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#34 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 26 December 2014 - 17:39

Unfortunately, everyone's off on holiday — me included, although I try to stay updated on what's happening in the community, customer support and on the sales front — so although I was able to publish the Christmas card in all 'channels' (Kickstarter, multiple Twitter feeds and Facebook pages) I was not able to send an email to our PayPal backers. That's always handled by someone else (Rakel) and it wasn't something I could easily do in the time available to me. I was going to post it here as well, but then you guys took care of that — thank you!

 

I'm reasonably certain that most backers who are interested in staying updated on the latest news follow us somewhere on the interwebs, be it social media or on the forum. For those who don't, I apologise: it just wasn't doable.

 

Thanks for clarifying Ragnar. I appreciate you taking the time. 

 

I understand, but I do feel bad for everyone who would have wanted the message who doesn't follow you guys elsewhere on the internet. It's unfortunate. And I get why it is the way it is, but I also sympathize with those who feel like they were left out or who feel like it's unfair to a section of backers. It's a tough call to make. 

 

As far as a better solution...I'm not really sure if I can come up with anything that hasn't already been pointed out or mentioned, but I'll mull it over. 

 

Though, you know, if you ever want volunteers to help with stuff, I'm willing. Besides, I'm American. They don't pay us to do anything over here.  ;) 


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#35 toremygg

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Posted 26 December 2014 - 19:45

Besides, I'm American. They don't pay us to do anything over here. ;)


I think that may be part of the problem... ;)

#36 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 26 December 2014 - 20:09

I think that may be part of the problem... ;)


No you're right. That's why there are protests and stuff here. But in the US this is a problem we'd normally throw an unpaid intern at.
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#37 ct2651

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Posted 26 December 2014 - 21:51

Well, to put it in perspective, we've only had about a month and a half to work on Book Two after the release of Book One, and our second episode is pretty huge — bigger than expected. We'll have more news at the beginning of January. It'll be worth the wait, I promise!

 

I'm sure it will be worth, habitually, there is a problem when the time is cut, not when it's delayed.

So just pass some relaxing time here and be fresh for January Ragnar.



#38 Pawlo_86

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Posted 26 December 2014 - 22:14

I thought that Book Two was almost completed during release of Book One but it seems that Book One was some kind of trigger for Book Two. It seems that:

 

- feedback from Book One (mostly positive but many people said that Book 1 is too short),

- sales of Season Pass,

- technical issues after Book One,

 

lead RTG to made some major changes to Book Two.And this requaried more time to develop it. I'm still hoping that Book Two will release before 21st of January 2015.



#39 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 26 December 2014 - 23:59

When Book One was released, Ragnar's estimate was that Book Two was ~70%-ish done, but that came with the caveat that giving estimates like that is hard, and that things could change. It sounds like some things have changed / been tweaked given the feedback they've received, etc. 

 

I'm hoping there won't be any significant delays with Book Two, but I was never really expecting it to be out before Christmas. Given when they want the whole game to be out (hopefully), we're looking at (very) roughly 3 months between books. Which is subject to change and which would still put Book Two in late January. Since it's a big one, I'm hoping/thinking more like early February. Which is, coincidentally, when I have in the release date guessing game. ;) 


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#40 Ikon

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 00:06

It's something we've thought about and talked about, but there are pitfalls.

 

The trust thing, I'm not too worried about: there are lots of people in our community that I would trust with our social media accounts. After all, we have some fantastic moderators on this forum (who work on a voluntary basis, sacrificing their precious free time to help us out and make this community better: we love 'em) who I'm sure could do an amazing job. And I would have no issue trusting any of them.

 

The two biggest issues would be asking people to do actual work for free (ethically dubious at the best of times; could explode in our faces, as we've seen in the past) and staying completely in sync with what a bunch of impulsive people in an office in Oslo are doing on a daily basis. I run most of the social media channels myself. Well…all. I run 'em all. I don't have to check with anyone before posting. If there's something I want to tweet, I do it. If I want to post a screenshot to Facebook, I run the game, take the shot, process and post it. There's no approval. There's no delay.

 

Of course, we could have a second person who then made sure all the information is passed to all channels, always, but that either means a) getting someone to help us out for free, which may be controversial; or B) spending money that might be better spent elsewhere, to produce the game and to make upcoming books better. (Or, y'know, buying toilet paper and coffee.)

 

As a manager, I have a hard time defending the latter when I can do a decent job of it for free, in the evenings. I would LOVE to have more people working on our social media stuff, community management, customer support…but it costs money.

 

As for asking people to volunteer their time… Like I said, can blow up in our faces. I already feel bad about our moderators spending so much time helping out here, but at least that's not unusual; we're not going to be called out for exploiting anyone's good will. In the long run, I hope we can pay someone to manage the community — and mods — but not right now. We'll address that in the months to come.

 

I don't know… I do my best with the time available to me, and right now I don't have any other solution. I think we do a decent job pushing information out, but we can obviously do better.

 

Suggestions?

 

Thanks Ragnar.

 

I hear you about the guilt of 'employing' unpaid 'staff'. My 'suggestion' is to consider the kinds of organisations that employ volunteer labor on a regular basis, and have for decades. Hospitals use volunteers every day, some of them for pretty vital functions. Food shelters depend on volunteer labor. Without it they would fail to accomplish their missions - people would actually die. And most special events wouldn't function without volunteers. The Olympics is perhaps the greatest example of these.

 

Compared to all of these, I don't think RTG's issues are so insurmountable. As you said, you have trustworthy, dedicated, intelligent people available. My suggestion is to use them. Never forget, it's their option whether to volunteer. Yes, you are taking advantage of them. That is, in fact, the point. The cautionary factor to note is to not take undue advantage of them. And remember, you're not taking undue advantage of someone if they don't feel you are.


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