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Is the moment dying?


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#1 maDSaint

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 00:10

Picking up this topic from FB.

I commented on FB about the sales on DFC with RTG rather giving a release date for book 2. I explained my comment on FB, but I will do this here as well, for anyone to comment.

I mentioned before I was never a fan of this episodic format, and now I see another big reason why.
Where there was this hype about book 1 being released, and the complete aftermath with speculation en theories etcetera, it feels like the DFC moment has died by now. And, when I speak for myself, I'm loosing total interest in book 2. I did say on FB that I found RTG being to "silent" (dont know the right term) about book 2, but it's not that i'm looking for loads of spoilers or info, but for that Kickstarter "vibe" that was going on. This way i'm loosing my interest in DFC, I'm not the character to sit and wait for an episode that may come this month or next year. 

Reading back those first lines, I dont have a clue what I'm trying to say ;) Or maybe I do. I can't blame RTG for my impatient personality, but I can try to be more patient. In the meanwhile, maybe I can ask RTG to give a bit more of a "thrill" in those silent interludes between the books, to keep me (an probably others) excited about whats to come.

edit: Try and see this post as a Picasso painting, it's trying to say a lot of things, in any way one wants to see it.

 



#2 Vainamoinen

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 00:24

Picking up this topic from FB.

I commented on FB about the sales on DFC with RTG rather giving a release date for book 2. I explained my comment on FB, but I will do this here as well, for anyone to comment.

I mentioned before I was never a fan of this episodic format, and now I see another big reason why.
Where there was this hype about book 1 being released, and the complete aftermath with speculation en theories etcetera, it feels like the DFC moment has died by now. And, when I speak for myself, I'm loosing total interest in book 2. I did say on FB that I found RTG being to "silent" (dont know the right term) about book 2, but it's not that i'm looking for loads of spoilers or info, but for that Kickstarter "vibe" that was going on. This way i'm loosing my interest in DFC, I'm not the character to sit and wait for an episode that may come this month or next year. 
 

 

You might loose interest right now, but you have bought the game already, so you don't really count towards future sales. ;)

 

The episodic format is very effective sales wise, but naturally sales are not constant throughout the entire series. I guess that whenever a new episode releases, interest is generated and new people hop in the boat. All that periodically emerging fuzz kicks sales while traditionally, there is only one release date and only one of those kicks. The first week is still massively important for episodic games, but maybe not all encompassing any more.

 

I'm not a fan of episodic games, as I've said repeatedly. But there are episodic series that work out somehow, and I rather guess Chapters will be one of those series.

 

Compared to, well, the big T, after sales services are at least, cough, existant with RTG. Patching is ongoing. There has, to my knowledge, never been more than just an elementary fix to any of the TTG episodes, ever, and in many games they have dragged the worst imaginable bugs (savegame corruption, constant download breakoffs, online activation problems) through an entire season without even finding the cause.

 

We are now in the expectable slump between episodes. RTG must concentrate on Book 2 (and patches please, Vsync, framerate!), and doesn't have time for too much publicity. Also, PR right now might be dangerous, because if the press is getting tired of continuously advertising Chapters, a new episode release won't generate enough of a kick for new sales.

 

So, yeah, everything's all right even though interest in the game is naturally waning at the moment. That is OK. If Chapters had been a full release, we all would have reached some kind of interest peak in the meantime and there wouldn't have been a chance that excitement reawakens in a few weeks months.


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#3 maDSaint

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 00:30

Thank you, for clearing up my thoughts. ;) I'm of course totally aware that I already bought the full game, and that's not the issue. Nor is the support or RTG trying to patch and fix the game. My issue was more about loosing my love for the series. This way it feels like it's slowly dying, with me loosing interest with every wait for another book.


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#4 Vainamoinen

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 00:49

I don't think it's happening that way. ;) In any case, it's a bit early to tell.


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#5 Happy Tree

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 01:30

Lose!

 

Sorry for my grammar Nazism, it's the one thing I am trying to stop happening, this change from the verb "to lose" to "to loose". But it will happen anyway because it's so prevalent. Oh well :-D

 

Anyway, on topic: I see what you mean. I am kinda fed up being a beta tester. I see why it had to happen like this and they don't have the resources to test things on multiple configs to predict driver aberrations, etc., but the effect for me is that I don't quite know how this game will end up feeling. I am losing connection with the game and the way RTG are doing things.

 

I think, to get back my love for this game, I should delete it and the saves and then ignore it until next year when it's all properly finished and the bugs have all been sorted out. Drawing it out over suchg a long time is diluting the intensity, for me. I understand why RTG would like people to stick around and keep things bubbling, and it looks like most people do want to do that. Wonderful! I wish them all the best. But me, I'm not in the groove for it this way.


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#6 maDSaint

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 02:00

Such! (instead of suchg)

 

Not everyone is a native English speaker, spokesman, whatever. Try to keep that in mind.

 I'm a grammar nazi when it comes to Dutch, thats why I hate posting posts like this. I can't really write down what I want to say. And once again, this is not an attack on RTG on how they are handling the aftermath of book 1 when it comes to support, they're doing an excellent job with that. It's just the inbetween that should be kept warm, like Zoe injecting the comateus Zoe with ehm, an adrenaline boosting substance of any kind (like beer or something).



#7 Ikon

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 02:06

No doubt some, impatient, people will find the period between book releases annoying. Others, I suspect, will find the episodic format actually keeps their interest going longer than it would have otherwise.


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#8 maDSaint

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 02:18

My post(s) might be a bit vague, but it's not about me being impatient. I'm talking about the drive to continue playing, without the motivation, like the enthousiasm, that's slowly fading.



#9 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 02:26

I get what you're saying, maDSaint. I wish I could tell you a way that would get you super hyped again, but I think that's really personal to each of us. I know for me, personally, I'm still stoked for Book Two, though I had a point about a week or so ago where I was feeling a little worried that I'd either be burned out on the game by the time it hit or otherwise start to feel the magic fade. 

 

But every time I start to feel that way, it doesn't last long and something gets me hyped up again. I think the episodic format is going to be a bit of a rollercoaster for me. 

 

I hope something gets you pumped up again. I don't know what it will be, but I hope you find it. And if you don't find it before Book Two, I hope that you'll still give it a shot when it comes out and see if it gets you back into that sweet spot. 


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#10 toremygg

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 07:22

We're older. Focus changes. I'm not as psyched for this release (train) as I was for the TLJ and DF releases, but I think that's natural given that I was, what, 24-25 when TLJ came out, and I'm 40 now...? Different interests, different priorities, different reaction patterns.


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#11 Anouk

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 08:01

Kom maar op met het 2e deel!



#12 toremygg

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 08:18

Ik weet niet wat dat betekent! :D


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#13 Ragnar

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 08:49

But every time I start to feel that way, it doesn't last long and something gets me hyped up again. I think the episodic format is going to be a bit of a rollercoaster for me. 

 

This, I think, is why episodic games work so well (for me, at least).

 

Lots of noise and discussions and excitement when an episode is released. A few days later — a week or two at most — everyone's finished it. Things settle down into a quiet groove. People get busy with other games (or life in general). They pop into the forum to chat with friends or theorise or complain, or they simply stay tuned to Twitter or Facebook or Steam for the latest news. Whenever there's a new video or character profiles or screenshots, there's a brief flash of excitement…

 

…and then — BAM! — the next episode hits. Everyone downloads, plays, gets excited all over again…until they're all finished and there's nothing left to do but wait for the next episode.

 

Rinse and repeat.

 

It's definitely cyclical. A roller-coaster. I enjoy it myself, and for the team it's been incredibly interesting and helpful to be able to read players' thoughts while we're still in development on the remaining 75+% of the game. While we're not changing the story, of course, we are changing a bunch of smaller things that haven't been locked down yet — both technical and content. The release of Book One was a chance for us to get the game out there early enough for your feedback to actually matter, development wise.

 

As for technical issues: those would have been there with a full release as well…and there would have been a lot more of them. Dreamfall Chapters is a HUGE game and we're a tiny, tiny team without a dedicated QA department. We've now sorted through most of the technical issues — we're still working on optimising memory usage further, and implementing exclusive full-screen mode and V-sync along with some other smaller fixes and updates, but for the most part we've squashed the potentially game-breaking bugs — and we can focus solely on content going forward. This is a fantastic luxury and wouldn't have been possible with a 10-12+ hour game. We'd still be mired in a bog of bugs.

 

And, from our point of view, with a standalone game, we'd be getting to the point now where everyone's played through all of it, and the excitement and 'hype' would be flatlining anyway…without another game in development. Without anything else from the TLJ/Dreamfall universe on the horizon.

 

What's better/worse? Getting all of it now and that's it, that's all of it, forever — or having another four releases to look forward to over the next ten months?

 

I know which one I prefer.


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#14 Pawlo_86

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 09:04

As for now, episodic model works great for me. I have played original release and liked the game. There was a lot of great discussion with Community. Then I played Patch 1.1.1 and get better experince. Then there was 1-2 weeks "silent" and nothing happend in Dreamfall world. Not much happend on forums. Then Book Two Teaser released and we got a long thread on forums about it. Yesterday i beat the game with Patch 1.1.2 and got better visuals and framerate than previous time. The game is super playble for me and i pretty like Book One.

 

@RTG/Ragnar

 

After test of Patch 1.1.2 i want to give you an idea to stop fixing small bugs because every time fixing small bugs lead to create another small bugs. Patch 1.1.2 removed a lot of background sound in Propast. I think that you should focus on Book Two and avoid to create game-breaking bugs.

But it's just my idea.



#15 Ragnar

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 09:20

@RTG/Ragnar

 

After test of Patch 1.1.2 i want to give you an idea to stop fixing small bugs because every time fixing small bugs lead to create another small bugs. Patch 1.1.2 removed a lot of background sound in Propast. I think that you should focus on Book Two and avoid to create game-breaking bugs.

But it's just my idea.

 

Thanks for the input! It doesn't quite work like that, however: some of the diegetic music vanished from Europolis because of a change to how music is loaded and kept in memory. This was a change we needed to do as soon as possible, and we'd rather find and squash this bug now than to have it be part of our next major release. That goes for most bugs: this is a better time for us to optimise and clean up the code than right before/during/after the release of Book Two.

 

Also, the people working on the next episode are not the same people working on the tech and engine. Or rather: they are, but the tech is shared between all episodes, and any fixes we do now will benefit ALL upcoming episodes. The content guys — artists, designers, writers — are all focusing on Book Two (and a little bit on Book Three) and they are not working on any patches.

 

We will publish at least one more patch prior to Book Two: 1.1.3 will have a short list of critical fixes (including the aforementioned diegetic music, along with exclusive full-screen mode and V-sync; you heard it here first!) and we're still evaluating a version 1.2 that will lead into the release of 2.0.


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#16 Lee-m

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 13:29

What's better/worse? Getting all of it now and that's it, that's all of it, forever — or having another four releases to look forward to over the next ten months?

This is actually one of the benefits for me of the bookisodic release schedule. It's kinda nice to know for a change there will be some more soon.

I have spent now almost half my life firstly hoping and waiting for news on a new TLJ game, then waiting years for it to finally be released. I'm not a fan of the waiting part, but it is almost nice to drag it out over a year.


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#17 Indrid Cold

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 13:44

Personally, I prefer "single piece" stories, that I can advance at my own pace, than episodic. TV series are an exception, since they can have a lot more story than a film. But I'm OK with episodic too.



#18 khh

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 16:27

I would say that there is at least as much story in one book of DFC as there are in a TV-episode. So I guess it's like a mini series.


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#19 agirlnamedbob

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 16:40

And, from our point of view, with a standalone game, we'd be getting to the point now where everyone's played through all of it, and the excitement and 'hype' would be flatlining anyway…without another game in development. Without anything else from the TLJ/Dreamfall universe on the horizon.

 

What's better/worse? Getting all of it now and that's it, that's all of it, forever — or having another four releases to look forward to over the next ten months?

 

I know which one I prefer.

 

Quite. I love this community and all the friends I've made here so much that I'm really enjoying the fact that a lot of us are going to be on this ride together over the next several months. It's kind of nice that it won't be one and done. We get to all stay together on this journey a little longer. It's something very special, and while I was definitely skeptical about the format change when it was first announced, I've warmed up to it a lot. Hoping Book Two will make me even more excited for the rest of the ride. 

 

Not to say I expect us all to fade away completely once the full game is out, but the atmosphere will be different. (And hey, hopefully by then we'll have some more Draugen news to discuss!) 

 

This is nice. 

 

P.S. Yay, Ragnar replied to something I said that wasn't critical! :lol:


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#20 Ikon

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 19:40

Also, the people working on the next episode are not the same people working on the tech and engine. Or rather: they are, but the tech is shared between all episodes, and any fixes we do now will benefit ALL upcoming episodes.

 

Exactly. It's a huge benefit to be able to take on the bugs in bite-size chunks, rather than as a monstrosity. Also, because each Book/Chapter is only a fraction of the whole, it becomes more practical to go back and incorporate fixes discovered on Book 3 into Books 1 & 2.


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